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[Music]

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Steinberg our co-host this week once

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again is Christopher O'Brien he is not

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going to appear here and in his

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trickster guys are unique we have a

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trickster coming on Dulli yeah he's

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clifford mahooty as clown clan he's a

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trickster Oh we'll have to talk about

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that in a moment before we do that

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though it's a pretty wild speculation in

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the power cast forums at forum dot the

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power cast calm where people were trying

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to take us to task because we weren't

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asking the tough questions anymore hmm

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and I think here's a statement I'll make

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as you listen to the power cast this

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week and I'm Jean Steinberg co-host

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Chris O'Brien my statement is simply

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this we used to and I'm not going to

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criticize anybody for it put on guests

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and maybe we would ask them softball

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questions because they were our friends

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under the previous administration as it

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were I don't think we do that right now

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I think we try to be as fair as possible

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to the guests we're not going to ambush

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them unless they deserve to be ambushed

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but just a couple of weeks back we had

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race Stanford and I know an anticipation

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of that people were saying well okay

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Chris is a friend of race tedward he's

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not going to ask reasonable questions

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but now since the show they haven't said

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anything mmm well I guess that's a good

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thing

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somebody did make the observation a

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while back that the less furor in

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response that you have on the forum

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after a guest is on the I guess the

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better the show was so you know we

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haven't had that much negative response

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very little at all on the Ray Stanford

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episode so that's that's a good thing

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really think what about the evidence

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that we presented now one of the things

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I asked him to do on the show was to get

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us some audio files how's that coming

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well we're he's in the process right now

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of going through the tape that that he

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referred to on the on the segment and

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we're gonna go ahead and do a phone

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session I'm gonna help him digitize it

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he's never worked with digital audio

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before but the machine that he had

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wasn't working properly so he had to

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find another one he's done that and

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we're ready to do our session and get

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those audio clips up there basically

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this is just an ordinary cassette

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recorder that he used right correct okay

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so he buys the 25 dollar cassette

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recorder you can still buy those things

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can't you yeah you can but you need you

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need one that has good frequency

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response because the type of sound that

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we're going to be most interested in is

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an O is a very low frequency sound and

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some of your cheaper cassette players

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don't really have the ability to

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reproduce those those particular

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frequencies so he's getting a good

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quality cassette player that has a good

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frequency response so that we can do a

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proper analog to digital conversion you

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don't know how many hours of recording

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we have to deal with here do you it's

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only 35 minutes worth of audio but this

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is this is something that he needs to do

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for all his audio tapes at some point

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he's got many many hours that he's

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recorded over the years of on-site

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investigations and like his films these

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audio tapes should be digitized another

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thing that we're working with rayon I

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have someone who's helping make the film

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- you know the motion picture film to

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digital conversion process or reality

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and this is very important because

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that's raised primary data of visual

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data and we really need to get all those

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films that he's taken since 1956

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digitized so that we can you know we can

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see this wonderful footage that he's

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accumulated over the years you know as

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we were talking I was looking over at

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the RadioShack website to see just how

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cassette recorders they have and I saw

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just two and those two were combos with

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a radio you know kind of a small box

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with a built-in cassette recorder that

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was it they're not so easy to get are

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they no there I don't really even think

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they make them anymore except you know

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as part of a combination unit however if

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you go out there and look and you don't

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som use electronic stores that sort of

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thing there are some out there which is

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I guess where he got the one that he has

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right you go to one of the specialty

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stores there is a standard cassette

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voice recorder from Sony which actually

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cost 37 dollars but if you want to get

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an archiving product like análisis they

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make audio recording equipment it's two

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hundred twenty dollars right so there

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you go today we have something unusual

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for the para cast you know in large part

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we've talked about UFOs current UFOs not

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so much UFOs and ancient times we've had

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that discussion also we've also talked a

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few times about Bigfoot such as the

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session we recently had with David

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Hatcher Childress talking about his Yeti

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book and we had of course

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cryptozoologist Loren Coleman on the

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show we've talked about ghosts a few

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times we've talked about general

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paranormal occurrences of all kinds with

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Jason Offit and Phil and brog know and

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others but this is the kind of topic

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that we're going to have today that we

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really haven't approached so before we

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get into our session with clifford

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mahooty who is he

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Clifford is the first Zuni elder that

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sever agreed to do a radio interview

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such as we're going to be doing today he

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recently appeared in The History Channel

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ancient aliens or unthinking ancient

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astronauts or ancient aliens I'm not

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sure what the name of the series was but

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he he agreed to go on camera and talk

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about the Zuni Indians sacred star

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knowledge this is a subject that has not

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been presented to the rank-and-file

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public because it is very special

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knowledge that certain Native American

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cultures have

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I'm elated over many generations

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possibly thousands of years and this is

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actually gonna be in historic show gene

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we've never heard to my knowledge from a

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Zuni elder on the radio about anything

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let alone talking about their sacred

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star knowledge and star people tradition

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and this is episode I'm really looking

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forward to doing clifford mahooty is a

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rare individual he is a world-class

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civil engineer he worked as a supervisor

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for the Department of Interior Bureau of

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Indian Affairs civil engineering

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projects for Indian reservations for 25

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years he's worked as an engineer

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mechanical engineer for Shell Oil he's

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extremely intelligent very well schooled

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and he is deeply immersed into his Zuni

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spiritual culture the medicine societies

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in Kiva societies in clan knowledge that

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he holds is is very admirable and he's

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made it his life's work to collect these

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stories and and make sure that these

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stories are passed along to the next

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generation so that they don't lose these

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important parts of their culture he's a

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man that straddles both the white man's

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world in the native world and he's a

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rare individual and we're so fortunate

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and so lucky to have him on the program

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today just a couple of questions about

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him before we get him on how did you

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meet him first well that's a good

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question I happen to finally take the

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plunge after 15 years and I went to the

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Laughlin conference two years ago and he

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just basically walked up and introduced

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himself and told me he was a fan of my

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work that he had read my books and that

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he thought that I would be very

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interested in hearing some of the

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information that he was willing to talk

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about and so we struck up a friendship I

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made a number of trips up to the Zuni

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Reservation and stayed with him he's

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made a number of trips down here to the

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Sedona area and we've we've actually

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become very good friends and he's he's a

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clown Klan elder which is the trickster

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clan basically in Native American

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tradition he

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has a very very good sense of humor so

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this guy is a trickster

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he's a tricked he's a real trickster so

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we're gonna have to we're gonna have to

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pin him down a little bit and or watch

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ourselves and see watch ourselves yeah

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so Native American you know clan

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societies in medicine societies there

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there is a there is a trickster clan or

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a clown clan and many of the Native

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American traditional tribes and clifford

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is is a clown clan card-carrying clown

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medicine Society members so this is

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gonna be fun okay so does that mean he

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dresses up as a clown too well when it's

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appropriate yes the rest of the time I

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mean he's very dapper he he just looks

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like a regular guy he looks like a

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regular guy okay we have another regular

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guy with us this week of course our

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co-host Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

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you're in the para cast

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[Music]

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Jean Steinberg this is the para cast and

340
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Chris O'Brien is going to be here right

341
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:46,779
now to introduce our special guest Chris

342
00:14:51,419 --> 00:14:48,850
Clifford thank you so much for being on

343
00:14:53,579 --> 00:14:51,429
the show this is actually as I mentioned

344
00:14:55,889 --> 00:14:53,589
in in the warm-up to this this is

345
00:14:57,929 --> 00:14:55,899
actually a pretty historic moment to

346
00:14:59,400 --> 00:14:57,939
your knowledge are you the first zuni

347
00:15:08,369 --> 00:14:59,410
elder that's ever really gone on the air

348
00:15:11,249 --> 00:15:08,379
and done a broadcast like this well why

349
00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:11,259
don't we first kind of bring people up

350
00:15:17,549 --> 00:15:13,569
to speed on who exactly the zuni are

351
00:15:20,549 --> 00:15:17,559
perhaps give us some background on your

352
00:15:23,069 --> 00:15:20,559
growing up and how your culture is

353
00:15:25,109 --> 00:15:23,079
divided into medicine clan in Kiva

354
00:15:27,989 --> 00:15:25,119
societies so that people can get a

355
00:15:31,169 --> 00:15:27,999
flavor of this very ancient indigenous

356
00:15:33,569 --> 00:15:31,179
tradition that you are part of that has

357
00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:33,579
been here in North America for thousands

358
00:15:35,939 --> 00:15:35,169
of years I think that would be a good

359
00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:35,949
place to start

360
00:15:42,269 --> 00:15:39,220
okay well people are located close to

361
00:15:45,449 --> 00:15:42,279
the Four Corners area and towards Mexico

362
00:15:49,889 --> 00:15:45,459
it borders Arizona in the reservation

363
00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:49,899
south of the interstate 40 and we're

364
00:15:58,799 --> 00:15:53,649
situated in an area that is far apart

365
00:16:01,429 --> 00:15:58,809
desert and part the woodland area and we

366
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:01,439
we have been here according to our

367
00:16:06,929 --> 00:16:04,569
history for his listo I don't know how

368
00:16:10,319 --> 00:16:06,939
many thousands of years and the culture

369
00:16:12,419 --> 00:16:10,329
here is where one of the 19 pueblos

370
00:16:16,529 --> 00:16:12,429
Indians have survived throughout the

371
00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:16,539
centuries and we're close to like the

372
00:16:21,389 --> 00:16:18,070
Hopi it sounded

373
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:21,399
Rio Grande tribes up to the east we are

374
00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:24,670
a very distinct society or tribe because

375
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:26,920
we have our own language which is not

376
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:29,920
connected to any language the linguists

377
00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:32,320
have tried for many many years to try to

378
00:16:39,059 --> 00:16:35,110
determine where our origin is and they'd

379
00:16:42,030 --> 00:16:39,069
never figured it out we are 95% of our

380
00:16:44,939 --> 00:16:42,040
Zuni religion is practiced by the people

381
00:16:47,939 --> 00:16:44,949
here but we also have been influenced by

382
00:16:51,379 --> 00:16:47,949
the Catholic Church in times past that

383
00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:51,389
we have also that coop here but our

384
00:16:58,680 --> 00:16:54,540
system is primarily made up of the

385
00:16:59,449 --> 00:16:58,690
indigenous culture of priesthood client

386
00:17:06,260 --> 00:16:59,459
systems

387
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:06,270
and a lot of very different types of

388
00:17:11,789 --> 00:17:10,000
orders that are very prevalent among the

389
00:17:14,159 --> 00:17:11,799
Zuni people here it sounds very

390
00:17:16,530 --> 00:17:14,169
complicated all the interrelationships

391
00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:16,540
between these different these different

392
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:17,020
groups

393
00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:24,970
tell us how how these these breakdowns

394
00:17:34,260 --> 00:17:31,230
work people belong to a certain class

395
00:17:37,049 --> 00:17:34,270
this was these clans were developed in

396
00:17:39,690 --> 00:17:37,059
during the creation and he was put put

397
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:39,700
in order by what we call the star people

398
00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:44,049
and the second the second biggest mmm is

399
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:47,500
the Kachina society system which all the

400
00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:50,770
young men of the village belong to their

401
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:54,580
initiating to the system and also the

402
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:57,690
client system has very many different

403
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:00,880
people that have many different orders

404
00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:03,610
that are connected with the clan systems

405
00:18:10,830 --> 00:18:06,070
that are sort of leaders of different

406
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:10,840
orders for example the Kachina system is

407
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:15,280
headed by the deer clan and the beggar

408
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:18,730
clan and no other plan would be will

409
00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:21,610
hold that position so the clan systems

410
00:18:28,919 --> 00:18:25,960
are have other orders but depending on

411
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:28,929
what responsibilities they have for the

412
00:18:34,110 --> 00:18:31,600
well-being of the community in the tribe

413
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:34,120
general they have their own designated

414
00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:37,360
leaders as far as a medicine order

415
00:18:43,470 --> 00:18:40,150
system is concerned we're connected with

416
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:43,480
other pueblos especially up in the the

417
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:46,690
curious pueblos around Albuquerque New

418
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:49,690
Mexico and so we have many many

419
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:51,910
different systems and of course there's

420
00:18:58,409 --> 00:18:54,480
sub sub systems within these main groups

421
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,419
so it's a very complex society and if

422
00:19:03,299 --> 00:19:00,400
you look at a matrix if you set up a

423
00:19:06,899 --> 00:19:03,309
matrix you're going to have a lot of

424
00:19:09,330 --> 00:19:06,909
different systems in a woven in order to

425
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:09,340
carry out the functionally the tribe in

426
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:11,710
general just an ask question here how

427
00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:15,850
many of you are there now there's about

428
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:18,070
between twelve to thirteen thousand

429
00:19:24,659 --> 00:19:21,520
people okay now do you exist separate

430
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:24,669
from other tribes very much for one well

431
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:28,530
like I said we're isolated physically

432
00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:31,570
geographically but we do not have any

433
00:19:38,299 --> 00:19:33,940
inter connection with other tribes in

434
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:38,309
that as far as the language and the

435
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:41,710
culture is concerned but we also have

436
00:19:48,299 --> 00:19:44,820
but we also connect to as far as the

437
00:19:49,260 --> 00:19:48,309
different customs and spirituality with

438
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:49,270
the other petals

439
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:52,750
we are connected in many many ways for

440
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:54,610
example like the Hopi were pretty well

441
00:20:01,440 --> 00:19:57,760
parallel with their dances in their

442
00:20:03,930 --> 00:20:01,450
folklore and their mythology but since

443
00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:03,940
we are a very distinct tribe we ours are

444
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:06,940
very specific but we also are parallel

445
00:20:12,029 --> 00:20:09,370
with what what their beliefs are so

446
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:12,039
which which clan were you born into and

447
00:20:16,409 --> 00:20:14,080
it is a matriarchal system correct the

448
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:16,419
mother is the one that passes down the

449
00:20:28,830 --> 00:20:26,370
lineal and matriarchal system the high

450
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:28,840
belong to the son clan and because it's

451
00:20:35,549 --> 00:20:31,570
a mature mature linear my mother is also

452
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:35,559
a son Clarence oh but I am also a child

453
00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:38,890
of my father's clan which in this case

454
00:20:44,810 --> 00:20:42,520
is the dog of it and actually they also

455
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:44,820
have breakdowns there too

456
00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:48,690
two groups within the dogwood clan

457
00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:52,200
one is the The Raven or The Crow and the

458
00:20:58,879 --> 00:20:55,470
other one is a parrot clan the per clan

459
00:21:00,620 --> 00:20:58,889
being the ones that are related to the

460
00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:00,630
people that went south which would

461
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:03,750
probably Mexico since for America and so

462
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:07,769
on okay why don't we get into what what

463
00:21:15,139 --> 00:21:12,320
how do you learn how are you taking into

464
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:15,149
the medicine lineages and how are you

465
00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:17,250
taken into the kiba I think the key

466
00:21:23,509 --> 00:21:20,070
affiliation will be the first one that

467
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:23,519
you're exposed to as a young boy once

468
00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:25,049
you describe that process a little bit

469
00:21:31,009 --> 00:21:26,940
for us and then we'll move into your

470
00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:31,019
very interesting life history well first

471
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:34,470
of all like I said the young people the

472
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:37,440
young boys or the village have to become

473
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:41,610
a member of the Kachina society and

474
00:21:46,460 --> 00:21:44,610
there's a whole initiation ceremony that

475
00:21:48,769 --> 00:21:46,470
they have to go through and the reason

476
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:48,779
for initiation is so they can

477
00:21:55,850 --> 00:21:52,740
participate in in the Kachina society

478
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:55,860
activities the patina Society is

479
00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:58,559
actually a priesthood that is directly

480
00:22:05,659 --> 00:22:02,240
related to the to the sky people

481
00:22:09,740 --> 00:22:05,669
associated in our history of the origin

482
00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:09,750
of the sky people and the adaption into

483
00:22:15,769 --> 00:22:12,120
the Kachina society sometime way back

484
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:15,779
and every boy between the ages of about

485
00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:19,110
6 to about 10 years old the law has to

486
00:22:27,009 --> 00:22:23,220
belong to a patina Society and there's

487
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:27,019
six keyless six Kiva's in in the village

488
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:29,730
there's only people and he's one of

489
00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:36,690
those initiated has to make a

490
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:39,720
determination by his godfather to take

491
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:41,970
to what Kiva that he should be long term

492
00:22:46,190 --> 00:22:44,159
I'll tell you what we'll get into more

493
00:22:48,769 --> 00:22:46,200
detail of that in a moment Chris O'Brien

494
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:48,779
is our co-host our guest is clifford

495
00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:51,570
mahooty I'm Jean Steinberg I'm Jean

496
00:22:59,720 --> 00:22:55,190
Steinberg you're in the para cast

497
00:23:02,220 --> 00:22:59,730
[Music]

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00:25:02,430 --> 00:24:59,470
comm the main name in military supply if

547
00:25:04,410 --> 00:25:02,440
you've used the drug Braylon or scenario

548
00:25:05,130 --> 00:25:04,420
form metoclopramide please listen

549
00:25:06,750 --> 00:25:05,140
carefully

550
00:25:07,769 --> 00:25:06,760
Reglan has been shown to cause serious

551
00:25:09,629 --> 00:25:07,779
neurological

552
00:25:11,459 --> 00:25:09,639
side effects consisting of involuntary

553
00:25:13,649 --> 00:25:11,469
movements of the face limbs and other

554
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:13,659
body parts if you or a loved one has

555
00:25:17,249 --> 00:25:15,609
suffered this condition Gotha New York

556
00:25:20,639 --> 00:25:17,259
and New Jersey law from of Ashman and

557
00:25:23,159 --> 00:25:20,649
mira Sola at 888 seven-30 drug that's

558
00:25:26,249 --> 00:25:23,169
888 seven-30 drug for a free

559
00:25:28,109 --> 00:25:26,259
consultation call 888 seven-30 drug

560
00:25:30,899 --> 00:25:28,119
that's eight eight eight seven three

561
00:25:32,669 --> 00:25:30,909
zero three seven eight four if you've

562
00:25:35,310 --> 00:25:32,679
taken the contraceptive yaz or Yasmin

563
00:25:36,930 --> 00:25:35,320
please listen carefully these drugs have

564
00:25:39,299 --> 00:25:36,940
been found to cause blood clots in the

565
00:25:40,499 --> 00:25:39,309
body and gall bladder disease if you or

566
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:40,509
a loved one has suffered these

567
00:25:44,099 --> 00:25:42,369
side-effects contact the New York and

568
00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:44,109
New Jersey firm of Ashman and mira Sola

569
00:25:48,060 --> 00:25:45,849
at eight eight eight seven three zero

570
00:25:49,919 --> 00:25:48,070
groggy immediately for free consultation

571
00:25:51,659 --> 00:25:49,929
call eight eight eight seven three zero

572
00:25:53,969 --> 00:25:51,669
drug that's eight eight eight seven

573
00:25:55,829 --> 00:25:53,979
three zero three seven eight four again

574
00:25:57,810 --> 00:25:55,839
call Ashman and mira sola at eight eight

575
00:26:00,629 --> 00:25:57,820
eight seven three zero three seven eight

576
00:26:02,999 --> 00:26:00,639
four hello this is Steve shank remember

577
00:26:05,549 --> 00:26:03,009
when Alex told you to spell freedom fo

578
00:26:08,099 --> 00:26:05,559
OD well it was true food prices are

579
00:26:10,139 --> 00:26:08,109
going up even for a foods direct this

580
00:26:12,629 --> 00:26:10,149
will require the first price increase in

581
00:26:14,609 --> 00:26:12,639
three years legislation is in process to

582
00:26:17,070 --> 00:26:14,619
outlaw growing and sharing of food

583
00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:17,080
millions of families are being forced to

584
00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:18,609
depend on the government to feed them

585
00:26:22,139 --> 00:26:20,529
food prices are going up for Americans

586
00:26:24,329 --> 00:26:22,149
because other countries are buying our

587
00:26:26,489 --> 00:26:24,339
food the most important thing Americans

588
00:26:28,649 --> 00:26:26,499
can do for freedom and survival in these

589
00:26:30,869 --> 00:26:28,659
hardest of times as to get supplies of

590
00:26:32,999 --> 00:26:30,879
food because of your huge response to

591
00:26:35,009 --> 00:26:33,009
this by three get one free special it

592
00:26:37,499 --> 00:26:35,019
will be continued for seven more days

593
00:26:39,869 --> 00:26:37,509
until September 27th the new price

594
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:39,879
increase will take effect September 28

595
00:26:44,489 --> 00:26:41,769
he foods direct is helping fight for

596
00:26:48,959 --> 00:26:44,499
your freedom spelled fo OD every way

597
00:26:51,779 --> 00:26:48,969
they can call 849 five six 33 on the web

598
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:51,789
eat foods direct.com slash Alex that's

599
00:27:01,829 --> 00:26:55,809
800 for 0 9 5 6 33 on the web efforts

600
00:27:03,869 --> 00:27:01,839
direct comm slash Alex the gcn radio

601
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:03,879
network providing the world with

602
00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:10,570
hard-hitting talk radio GCN

603
00:27:15,130 --> 00:27:12,070
[Music]

604
00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:15,140
you're on the bear guests you never know

605
00:27:25,419 --> 00:27:23,320
Chris O'Brien is your co-host I'm gene

606
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:25,429
Steinberg you're in the para cast our

607
00:27:31,060 --> 00:27:28,129
special guests clifford mahooty and

608
00:27:32,919 --> 00:27:31,070
we're talking about Indian legends and

609
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:32,929
culture Chris pick it up please

610
00:27:37,060 --> 00:27:35,570
so you mentioned star people three times

611
00:27:39,039 --> 00:27:37,070
now and I'm sure some of our listeners

612
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:39,049
are going Chris you got to have them

613
00:27:44,379 --> 00:27:41,360
talk about that we are going to get be

614
00:27:48,879 --> 00:27:44,389
getting into the star people but I think

615
00:27:50,529 --> 00:27:48,889
the first place to start is the very

616
00:27:53,710 --> 00:27:50,539
interesting information that you

617
00:27:56,609 --> 00:27:53,720
imparted to me when we first met which

618
00:27:59,529 --> 00:27:56,619
is the relationship between the Kachina

619
00:28:01,989 --> 00:27:59,539
societies and the star people do you

620
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:01,999
want to give us a thumbnail sketch of

621
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:06,080
how this tradition is set up and what

622
00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:08,450
the actual connection between the

623
00:28:14,499 --> 00:28:11,950
Kachinas and the star people are well

624
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:14,509
like I said I had no teachings from the

625
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:19,129
elders in the Catena Society is actually

626
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:24,559
a priesthood of the sky people within

627
00:28:30,009 --> 00:28:27,200
the researching and just going through

628
00:28:34,060 --> 00:28:30,019
the lures and rituals is that when I

629
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:34,070
first heard about the Catena people when

630
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:36,080
I got initiated that's when you start

631
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:39,049
learning about the system and so the

632
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:42,559
connection between the Kachina and this

633
00:28:46,989 --> 00:28:45,049
and the star people is that in the in

634
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:46,999
the beginning when the earth was so

635
00:28:54,220 --> 00:28:49,970
young and then the zuni's call it when

636
00:28:56,019 --> 00:28:54,230
the earth was for raw uncooked so that

637
00:28:58,359 --> 00:28:56,029
was in the beginning

638
00:29:01,180 --> 00:28:58,369
the kachinas actually used to come to

639
00:29:03,249 --> 00:29:01,190
the villages the indigenous people

640
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:03,259
throughout the southwest and they were

641
00:29:07,090 --> 00:29:04,450
scattered all over

642
00:29:09,570 --> 00:29:07,100
what presently is Arizona New Mexico

643
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:09,580
probably you and clear up to Colorado

644
00:29:17,769 --> 00:29:14,570
but because that the star people come

645
00:29:19,749 --> 00:29:17,779
over and thanks for the people and go

646
00:29:22,210 --> 00:29:19,759
through their rituals in Britain and a

647
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:22,220
lot of different gifts such as rain

648
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:25,610
about their ways of agriculture and

649
00:29:31,529 --> 00:29:28,940
about different gifts from the sky

650
00:29:34,269 --> 00:29:31,539
people the people who become mesmerized

651
00:29:37,149 --> 00:29:34,279
and they would actually fall

652
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:37,159
because of their their total energy and

653
00:29:42,909 --> 00:29:39,849
their total love and they would become

654
00:29:46,089 --> 00:29:42,919
abducted or they fell in love with these

655
00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:46,099
people and they eventually be the only

656
00:29:51,879 --> 00:29:49,849
people who sort of took me so mesmerized

657
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:51,889
that they would either die or they were

658
00:29:57,609 --> 00:29:54,320
either abducted and according to the

659
00:30:00,359 --> 00:29:57,619
teachings of my elders if they had to

660
00:30:03,639 --> 00:30:00,369
come to a truce between the sky people

661
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:03,649
in the people that they come to visit to

662
00:30:10,209 --> 00:30:06,320
make some type of a substitution so they

663
00:30:12,249 --> 00:30:10,219
cannot go and decrease the population so

664
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:12,259
that's where the priesthood of the the

665
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:14,690
sky people in the priesthood of the Zuni

666
00:30:20,829 --> 00:30:17,330
people came to our troops to set up a

667
00:30:23,019 --> 00:30:20,839
system that they could emulate them and

668
00:30:26,169 --> 00:30:23,029
would be representative of the star

669
00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:26,179
people in the in the turn that process

670
00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:27,950
the star people would only come in

671
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:31,070
spirit form and not appear in three

672
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:33,710
dimensional but that they used to do so

673
00:30:38,349 --> 00:30:35,690
that's in the thumbnail sketch of how

674
00:30:41,529 --> 00:30:38,359
the Katrina came about so that's where

675
00:30:44,229 --> 00:30:41,539
the masks were made and also the

676
00:30:46,930 --> 00:30:44,239
protocols and the procedures were made

677
00:30:49,209 --> 00:30:46,940
so that that way that they would have

678
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:49,219
some type of an order that they have to

679
00:30:56,169 --> 00:30:51,529
follow so it's a very complex thing is

680
00:30:59,109 --> 00:30:56,179
it sort of very methodical and also it's

681
00:31:01,389 --> 00:30:59,119
very complex on how to carry out the

682
00:31:05,349 --> 00:31:01,399
rituals now when we think of star people

683
00:31:07,479 --> 00:31:05,359
clifford of course we think of ET coming

684
00:31:09,969 --> 00:31:07,489
here in ancient times and interacting

685
00:31:13,899 --> 00:31:09,979
with the local population so do you

686
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,909
regard the star people as ET well again

687
00:31:20,709 --> 00:31:15,919
the teachings of the elders are saying

688
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:20,719
they say that the heavens or the sky

689
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:21,200
people

690
00:31:29,169 --> 00:31:26,690
don't they don't really explain where

691
00:31:32,139 --> 00:31:29,179
they came from but just by observation

692
00:31:35,019 --> 00:31:32,149
alone today did you go to any other

693
00:31:37,659 --> 00:31:35,029
villages and look at the Kachinas you

694
00:31:40,629 --> 00:31:37,669
can tell by their different different

695
00:31:43,810 --> 00:31:40,639
design of the Kachina and the masks and

696
00:31:47,349 --> 00:31:43,820
the makeup and the way that they make

697
00:31:49,150 --> 00:31:47,359
sound or just a dress you can you can

698
00:31:51,070 --> 00:31:49,160
pretty well

699
00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:51,080
liquor connection that there are from

700
00:31:56,740 --> 00:31:53,660
different parts of the universe if you

701
00:31:59,710 --> 00:31:56,750
may and perhaps even different star

702
00:32:04,330 --> 00:31:59,720
systems because of their different

703
00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:04,340
character and so that that's one that's

704
00:32:09,370 --> 00:32:07,220
one way to just look at it by but it's

705
00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:09,380
very difficult to really understand

706
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:11,900
because there has never been any written

707
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:14,960
history about it so it's just the work

708
00:32:20,770 --> 00:32:17,510
that is passed on okay so this is an

709
00:32:23,230 --> 00:32:20,780
oral legend so it's like father the son

710
00:32:26,140 --> 00:32:23,240
mother the daughter whatever everything

711
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:26,150
is oral based there's no written or

712
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:27,350
paper trail to follow

713
00:32:34,450 --> 00:32:30,890
well yes that is correct but there's

714
00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:34,460
also a formal system that they go and

715
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:37,700
and this knowledge is passed on by not

716
00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:41,330
only by rituals but also by prayer by

717
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:45,590
can't chance by songs and just by

718
00:32:51,790 --> 00:32:48,370
everyday practice of how they do do

719
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:51,800
things way back in the past so there is

720
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:56,450
a very very comprehensive way of passing

721
00:33:02,049 --> 00:32:58,130
this knowledge on to the younger

722
00:33:05,410 --> 00:33:02,059
generation and we have we still keep

723
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:05,420
that information system and it's passed

724
00:33:17,919 --> 00:33:06,080
on

725
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:17,929
patina priesthood and they're the

726
00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:20,450
keepers of the the history of the

727
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:23,390
tradition the initiation rites and and

728
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:26,960
the procedures in the protocol now one

729
00:33:31,390 --> 00:33:29,210
of the things I guess those of us who

730
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:31,400
grew up in the Western world in terms of

731
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:34,400
our backgrounds maybe don't understand

732
00:33:39,370 --> 00:33:36,770
the concept of this oral tradition very

733
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:39,380
much how when you pass this information

734
00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:42,170
on from person to person do you ensure

735
00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:47,030
that it's accurately conveyed well first

736
00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:49,910
of all if the prayer system that's

737
00:33:55,150 --> 00:33:52,460
probably the most formal one the

738
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,160
everyday language of the Zuni is just

739
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,200
like any other language there's a lot of

740
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:00,080
slang in it then the second orders is

741
00:34:05,019 --> 00:34:01,370
war and

742
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:05,029
we we doing rituals probably the third

743
00:34:11,020 --> 00:34:08,450
and the fourth order or like the the

744
00:34:13,810 --> 00:34:11,030
formal system where you passes

745
00:34:17,619 --> 00:34:13,820
information on and it's done by prayer

746
00:34:19,839 --> 00:34:17,629
so it's done by prayer that that you

747
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:19,849
repeat and you keep repeating it and

748
00:34:25,210 --> 00:34:22,609
there's a lot of times they go into

749
00:34:28,589 --> 00:34:25,220
other systems but depending on the

750
00:34:31,419 --> 00:34:28,599
occasion that's what it's it's a very

751
00:34:33,879 --> 00:34:31,429
tough situation to explain because

752
00:34:36,970 --> 00:34:33,889
everything is all so you have to know

753
00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:36,980
all the things that is relevant to

754
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,780
whatever the occasion is and whatever

755
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:40,960
the ritual is and whatever the prayer

756
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:43,730
involved in but but there's also a lot

757
00:34:49,419 --> 00:34:46,609
of parallels within your purses them to

758
00:34:54,430 --> 00:34:49,429
different networking with other systems

759
00:34:56,050 --> 00:34:54,440
in the Tony when you say prayer though

760
00:35:00,579 --> 00:34:56,060
what you're saying is that these are

761
00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:00,589
memorized stanzas basically that do not

762
00:35:04,690 --> 00:35:03,020
change through the generations they are

763
00:35:07,660 --> 00:35:04,700
passed down word for word in other words

764
00:35:09,790 --> 00:35:07,670
there's no there's no room for any sort

765
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:09,800
of interpretation or variation these are

766
00:35:15,370 --> 00:35:13,280
these our prayers and and stanzas that

767
00:35:25,859 --> 00:35:15,380
are memorized word for word is that

768
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:25,869
correct the time schedule the time

769
00:35:35,170 --> 00:35:31,970
reference is take the moon system for

770
00:35:47,730 --> 00:35:35,180
the Sun and also there if you look at it

771
00:35:55,359 --> 00:35:51,480
wherever the springs are at in certain

772
00:35:58,270 --> 00:35:55,369
ritual ritual plays but there so that's

773
00:36:00,579 --> 00:35:58,280
only within the the Katrina's system the

774
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:00,589
other systems also have other reference

775
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:02,930
points for example like in the star

776
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:06,730
systems but we really do not know the

777
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:09,680
right man's terms for different star

778
00:36:16,770 --> 00:36:13,600
system we know about we know about there

779
00:36:20,370 --> 00:36:16,780
relations we know about the other star

780
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,380
systems but we have our own name for

781
00:36:26,130 --> 00:36:23,200
those which we knew about them before

782
00:36:29,310 --> 00:36:26,140
the white man came up with her astronomy

783
00:36:31,650 --> 00:36:29,320
and other references so it's very

784
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:31,660
complex well we'll try to sort this out

785
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:33,490
in a moment as we progress through this

786
00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:35,710
interview we have clifford mahooty

787
00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:38,380
telling us about the Zuni legends about

788
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:40,630
the legends of star people in ancient

789
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:42,910
times about their culture and how

790
00:36:47,070 --> 00:36:45,040
information is passed from generation to

791
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:47,080
generation the co-host is Chris O'Brien

792
00:36:57,020 --> 00:36:49,330
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

793
00:37:02,300 --> 00:36:59,530
[Music]

794
00:37:05,090 --> 00:37:02,310
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795
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:05,100
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796
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797
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798
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799
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:15,810
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800
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801
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802
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804
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807
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808
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811
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812
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818
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acidic water which burns holes in your

819
00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:05,940
body and causes loss of bone mass or

820
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:08,070
alkaline water which promotes high

821
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:10,290
energy and vibrant health the answer is

822
00:38:13,850 --> 00:38:11,970
clear and if you're drinking acidic

823
00:38:15,980 --> 00:38:13,860
water you're helping cancer cells and

824
00:38:18,590 --> 00:38:15,990
bacteria to grow out of control Alka

825
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:18,600
vision plasma pH drops combine a unique

826
00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:20,490
formula of the most alkaline minerals

827
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:23,160
using plasma pH drops is the best way to

828
00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:25,560
alkalize your water and help you get rid

829
00:38:29,660 --> 00:38:27,390
of acid and regain your health and

830
00:38:31,820 --> 00:38:29,670
energy simply put 10 drops in the water

831
00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:31,830
you drink to raise the pH to a healthy

832
00:38:36,170 --> 00:38:34,200
alkaline level most experts agree that

833
00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:36,180
the water you drink should be at a pH

834
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:38,670
level of 8 or higher disease organisms

835
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:41,190
like bacteria viruses or cancer cannot

836
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:43,200
survive in an alkaline high pH

837
00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:44,850
environment order your bottle of

838
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:47,670
alkaviva plasma pH drops now by going

839
00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:50,400
directly to alcove isn't calm that's ALK

840
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a vision calm or by calling 2 6 9 4 0 9

841
00:39:06,109 --> 00:39:04,310
you owe the IRS money you can't pay then

842
00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:06,119
listen carefully because you already

843
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:08,040
know that the problem won't go away by

844
00:39:12,349 --> 00:39:10,260
itself you can get help today from the

845
00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:12,359
leading tax expert in the country dan

846
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:15,030
pillow hi I'm Dan Cola the IRS isn't

847
00:39:18,740 --> 00:39:16,770
going to just forget about you right now

848
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:18,750
the IRS is hiring thousands of tax

849
00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:20,130
collectors to go after delinquent

850
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accounts just like yours that's why you

851
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need to take action today and I can help

852
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I take a simple but proven approach to

853
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solving your tax debt problem

854
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first I stabilize collections so you

855
00:39:33,859 --> 00:39:31,590
don't have to worry about waging Bank

856
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levies next I build a detailed plan to

857
00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:35,520
get your debt reduced to the fullest

858
00:39:39,770 --> 00:39:37,320
extent possible sometimes even

859
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:39,780
eliminated finally I work with you every

860
00:39:42,859 --> 00:39:41,010
step of the way to get your problem

861
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solved once and for all so call now for

862
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,660
a free consultation call 1-800 three

863
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four six six eight two nine dan pillow

864
00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:49,619
will solve your tax problem

865
00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:51,540
guaranteed he's helped thousands of

866
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:53,460
people and he can help you too call us

867
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today at 834 six six eight to nine

868
00:40:02,690 --> 00:39:59,750
that's eight hundred thirty-four no tax

869
00:40:05,359 --> 00:40:02,700
if your handgun is loaded and easy to

870
00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:05,369
get to it's also dangerous what if you

871
00:40:08,750 --> 00:40:06,660
could reach your loaded handgun

872
00:40:10,090 --> 00:40:08,760
instantly and still provide a margin of

873
00:40:12,349 --> 00:40:10,100
safety for your family

874
00:40:14,810 --> 00:40:12,359
introducing the dragon draw a gun fall

875
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:14,820
from my quick safe calm the dragon draw

876
00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:16,950
a gun vault is a small portable gun safe

877
00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:19,350
for subcompact pistols or snub nosed

878
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:21,540
revolvers it's made of heavy gauge steel

879
00:40:25,970 --> 00:40:24,090
Pat it inside and uses your fingerprint

880
00:40:27,410 --> 00:40:25,980
to open and close with the dragon draw

881
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:27,420
gun vault you'll now be able to keep

882
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:29,130
your handgun locked and loaded

883
00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:31,200
without fear of an accident see the

884
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:33,180
revolutionary dragon draw gun vault in

885
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:35,609
action and order yours online at Mike

886
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:38,430
quick safe calm that's my quick safe

887
00:40:43,340 --> 00:40:41,280
calm or call toll free eight seven seven

888
00:40:45,710 --> 00:40:43,350
three two seven zero three six five

889
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:45,720
eight seven seven three two seven zero

890
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:47,820
three six five that's one eight seven

891
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:50,250
seven three two seven zero three six

892
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:53,220
five or go to my quick safe calm stay

893
00:40:59,799 --> 00:40:55,770
locked loaded and safe with the dragon

894
00:41:02,690 --> 00:40:59,809
draw gun fall from my quick safe calm

895
00:41:04,940 --> 00:41:02,700
tired of searching for great talk radio

896
00:41:07,549 --> 00:41:04,950
search no more I told it it has

897
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:07,559
everything we are the GC and radio

898
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:12,930
networks hi this is Don Ecker and you

899
00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:15,839
are tuned in to the para cast let me

900
00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:17,760
tell you what you're gonna hear stuff

901
00:41:23,569 --> 00:41:20,460
here that you probably won't hear

902
00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:23,579
anywhere else hear that George Noory

903
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,150
we continue with clifford mahooty as any

904
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:29,760
elder talking about Indian culture and

905
00:41:34,549 --> 00:41:32,130
legends and the things that of course

906
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:34,559
are interesting to those of us who

907
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,049
follow all this lore especially where it

908
00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:38,880
conveys the impression of possible

909
00:41:43,849 --> 00:41:41,910
visitations by ancient astronauts maybe

910
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:43,859
I'm Jean Steinberg you're in the power

911
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:46,530
cast our co-host Chris O'Brien picks it

912
00:41:50,930 --> 00:41:48,780
up okay let's let's talk about Clifford

913
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:50,940
a little bit here you are a rare

914
00:41:56,990 --> 00:41:54,450
individual and you're one of the few

915
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:57,000
people that I've ever even heard of let

916
00:42:01,549 --> 00:41:59,010
alone met that has successfully

917
00:42:04,579 --> 00:42:01,559
navigated both the white man's world and

918
00:42:06,020 --> 00:42:04,589
your own traditional ancient culture why

919
00:42:09,079 --> 00:42:06,030
don't you give us a little background on

920
00:42:11,180 --> 00:42:09,089
your life your very interesting life as

921
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:11,190
an engineer and as a you know a person

922
00:42:25,789 --> 00:42:13,170
that is able to straddle both these

923
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:25,799
worlds there's a lot of things happening

924
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:28,490
in this country and being an isolated

925
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:31,020
individual and an Indian Reservation you

926
00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:32,880
don't see very much we didn't have any

927
00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:35,880
television the only radio station we had

928
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:39,180
was one out of KOB and Albuquerque and

929
00:42:42,770 --> 00:42:40,380
one'a de gallo

930
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:42,780
so that was my information system

931
00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:46,020
however the interesting part about my

932
00:42:56,270 --> 00:42:53,640
life was that when I started to learn

933
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:56,280
about a lot of things then I was very

934
00:43:01,069 --> 00:42:58,770
curious about the sciences and then at

935
00:43:04,490 --> 00:43:01,079
the same time I was also brought up by

936
00:43:06,799 --> 00:43:04,500
the elders about what I am talking about

937
00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:06,809
about the different culture and about

938
00:43:12,310 --> 00:43:09,540
the religious order systems loony by the

939
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,320
time I was in high school I had already

940
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:14,720
acquired that interest and the curiosity

941
00:43:19,810 --> 00:43:17,270
about the scientific world especially in

942
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:19,820
mathematics in chemistry and biology and

943
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:20,450
so on

944
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:23,810
but at that time I grew up during the

945
00:43:31,390 --> 00:43:28,400
years of the stomach era and then into

946
00:43:34,750 --> 00:43:31,400
the space race and I graduated from

947
00:43:38,010 --> 00:43:34,760
college when man landed on the moon but

948
00:43:41,319 --> 00:43:38,020
between those years I got to be very

949
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:41,329
curious about what our chance and our

950
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:44,510
prayer system and our rituals were all

951
00:43:50,620 --> 00:43:46,700
about and at that time I thought it was

952
00:43:53,319 --> 00:43:50,630
this was so ancient why do we need to

953
00:43:56,980 --> 00:43:53,329
know about these things when it doesn't

954
00:43:59,170 --> 00:43:56,990
mean anything to me individually and I

955
00:44:00,790 --> 00:43:59,180
said because I did not understand I was

956
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:00,800
going through the motions I was going

957
00:44:05,859 --> 00:44:03,250
through the rituals I was trying to

958
00:44:08,349 --> 00:44:05,869
learn the prayer system sport it was

959
00:44:11,020 --> 00:44:08,359
very hard but at that time I had very

960
00:44:13,710 --> 00:44:11,030
few cue teachers especially especially

961
00:44:16,210 --> 00:44:13,720
in my family because I do not have any

962
00:44:19,050 --> 00:44:16,220
elders in my family they had all died

963
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:19,060
off by the time outs about a teenager so

964
00:44:24,430 --> 00:44:22,280
after graduation from high swell I got

965
00:44:26,910 --> 00:44:24,440
interested in the science fairs back in

966
00:44:30,130 --> 00:44:26,920
the early I'm in late 50s and early 60s

967
00:44:32,620 --> 00:44:30,140
so I started getting involved with a lot

968
00:44:34,780 --> 00:44:32,630
of science fair projects I started

969
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:34,790
learning about the math about calculus

970
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:37,790
about physics and so on and it was very

971
00:44:43,660 --> 00:44:40,250
interesting so I kind of left the zuni

972
00:44:46,059 --> 00:44:43,670
side of it sort of like in a passive

973
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:46,069
mode but however I was still practicing

974
00:44:53,950 --> 00:44:50,290
the rituals the prayer system the

975
00:44:56,290 --> 00:44:53,960
fasting the prayer to the gods and the

976
00:44:58,569 --> 00:44:56,300
Kachina dances and so on of course I was

977
00:45:03,220 --> 00:44:58,579
already in the Catena Society at that

978
00:45:06,609 --> 00:45:03,230
time so I started my engineering career

979
00:45:10,210 --> 00:45:06,619
well actually my curriculum in 1962

980
00:45:13,359 --> 00:45:10,220
which was during the space race and so I

981
00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:13,369
was there through 1969 when all the

982
00:45:17,890 --> 00:45:15,710
Apollo seers and you know these things

983
00:45:20,770 --> 00:45:17,900
were going on of course I was still

984
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:20,780
isolated in terms of my thinking because

985
00:45:26,050 --> 00:45:23,690
I was going back and forth between the

986
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:26,060
Zuni system and the white

987
00:45:32,110 --> 00:45:28,850
and engineering systems but it started

988
00:45:35,020 --> 00:45:32,120
dawning on me that why why do I need to

989
00:45:38,110 --> 00:45:35,030
know the SUNY system because the

990
00:45:40,890 --> 00:45:38,120
engineering system is a lot more more

991
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:40,900
comprehensive and it's more I guess more

992
00:45:47,350 --> 00:45:44,330
fun and at the same time it has more

993
00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:47,360
solid evidence of what what this world

994
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:50,060
is all about at that time you know did I

995
00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:53,510
know that this was not the real path

996
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:57,260
that was to my future about finding out

997
00:46:03,370 --> 00:46:01,520
a lot of things so I graduated from from

998
00:46:07,090 --> 00:46:03,380
college with an engineering degree in

999
00:46:10,180 --> 00:46:07,100
civil engineering and at that time I was

1000
00:46:12,220 --> 00:46:10,190
still out left without getting into the

1001
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:12,230
medicine order of course I was Kachina I

1002
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:15,250
was doing the holy the practices of the

1003
00:46:22,350 --> 00:46:18,710
holy system is really but I still did

1004
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:22,360
not have any solid backing about what to

1005
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:26,000
expect from me to be part of the whole

1006
00:46:36,310 --> 00:46:30,530
SUNY Society system so that that was my

1007
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:36,320
basic understanding for so then then you

1008
00:46:41,230 --> 00:46:38,330
you got into engineering you work for

1009
00:46:43,930 --> 00:46:41,240
Shell Oil if I remember for a year or

1010
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:43,940
two and then you ended up in the Bureau

1011
00:46:50,590 --> 00:46:46,970
of Indian Affairs you actually worked as

1012
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:50,600
a supervisor for large civil engineering

1013
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:52,490
projects around the country on the

1014
00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:53,810
Indian reservations you want to give us

1015
00:46:59,020 --> 00:46:56,180
a brief overview of your work for

1016
00:47:02,230 --> 00:46:59,030
20-plus years working for good old Uncle

1017
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:02,240
Sam and some of the projects that you

1018
00:47:09,220 --> 00:47:07,010
were involved with I work for share our

1019
00:47:12,730 --> 00:47:09,230
company for about three years and that's

1020
00:47:14,530 --> 00:47:12,740
the time that we had the first supposing

1021
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:14,540
that the gasoline shortage in the early

1022
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:18,770
70s I left they they Cheryl all company

1023
00:47:25,390 --> 00:47:21,850
because I just did not feel right about

1024
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:25,400
doing something that was not true which

1025
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:28,130
was gasoline shortage he was my job to

1026
00:47:34,090 --> 00:47:31,280
burn gasoline so I left that went to

1027
00:47:35,890 --> 00:47:34,100
work with Indian housing programs and

1028
00:47:39,220 --> 00:47:35,900
even came to work for my tribe there is

1029
00:47:42,430 --> 00:47:39,230
a Zuni tribe and then after that

1030
00:47:44,290 --> 00:47:42,440
I went in Gally a conditioned as a

1031
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:44,300
commission also in the unesco black isle

1032
00:47:48,849 --> 00:47:47,210
service after public health service I

1033
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:48,859
went to work for the Bureau of Indian

1034
00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:51,890
Affairs because I wanted to see if I can

1035
00:47:56,620 --> 00:47:54,560
make a dent in the organization about

1036
00:47:58,990 --> 00:47:56,630
how they were taking care of the Indian

1037
00:48:04,450 --> 00:47:59,000
people I was with the birthing to the

1038
00:48:07,330 --> 00:48:04,460
first for 25 years as the construction

1039
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:07,340
and maintenance engineer on a lot of

1040
00:48:12,310 --> 00:48:09,290
projects throughout the throughout the

1041
00:48:15,970 --> 00:48:12,320
whole United States of America clear up

1042
00:48:17,950 --> 00:48:15,980
to Alaska both Coast Pacific Atlantic

1043
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:17,960
coast and so I was involved with those

1044
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:21,730
type of projects but after that I I

1045
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:24,160
concentrated on the environmental

1046
00:48:30,250 --> 00:48:26,930
environmental portion of it because I

1047
00:48:33,310 --> 00:48:30,260
felt that there is going to be the thing

1048
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,320
then they need to look for this isn't

1049
00:48:38,890 --> 00:48:35,119
about the mid-eighties when I switched

1050
00:48:40,359 --> 00:48:38,900
over to environmental so since 1985 I've

1051
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:40,369
been involved with an environmental

1052
00:48:47,490 --> 00:48:44,570
program and my position at that time was

1053
00:48:51,220 --> 00:48:47,500
what they call an environmental justice

1054
00:48:55,150 --> 00:48:51,230
coordinator for for the representation

1055
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:55,160
of 581 federally recognized Indian

1056
00:48:59,859 --> 00:48:57,920
tribes all the way up to Alaska and down

1057
00:49:02,349 --> 00:48:59,869
here in the United States I mean the

1058
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:02,359
continental United States so I was quite

1059
00:49:07,410 --> 00:49:04,970
involved with anything from toxic

1060
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:07,420
substances to all the EPA regulatory

1061
00:49:15,310 --> 00:49:12,050
requirements reservation development

1062
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:15,320
group construction anything that has to

1063
00:49:20,830 --> 00:49:17,890
do with environmental assessment

1064
00:49:23,340 --> 00:49:20,840
enforcement of regulations so I spent

1065
00:49:28,530 --> 00:49:23,350
the last twenty five years of that and

1066
00:49:31,660 --> 00:49:28,540
so I became very disillusioned and

1067
00:49:35,380 --> 00:49:31,670
because I was trying to do my job but it

1068
00:49:37,210 --> 00:49:35,390
was very difficult to to get the Indian

1069
00:49:39,550 --> 00:49:37,220
tribes and the federal government to

1070
00:49:41,859 --> 00:49:39,560
work hand-in-hand to get things

1071
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:41,869
accomplished so that that was one of the

1072
00:49:47,859 --> 00:49:45,200
reasons why I took retirement three

1073
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:47,869
years ago in 2007 because it was very

1074
00:49:52,839 --> 00:49:49,970
hard difficult to get things working

1075
00:49:55,029 --> 00:49:52,849
together among the tribes with

1076
00:49:57,519 --> 00:49:55,039
the federal government and also with a

1077
00:49:59,349 --> 00:49:57,529
lot of state agencies let me ask you a

1078
00:50:00,729 --> 00:49:59,359
fast question here because this kind of

1079
00:50:03,489 --> 00:50:00,739
relates to law the other stuff we're

1080
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:03,499
going to go into in further sections on

1081
00:50:08,140 --> 00:50:05,690
the show and that is the legends that

1082
00:50:12,579 --> 00:50:08,150
you report from your culture are they

1083
00:50:15,509 --> 00:50:12,589
shared with a lot of other tribes the

1084
00:50:19,390 --> 00:50:15,519
other tribes have their own legends

1085
00:50:23,859 --> 00:50:19,400
because of their specific creation

1086
00:50:27,219 --> 00:50:23,869
mythologies the only two that are

1087
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:27,229
parallel right now is the Hopi and the

1088
00:50:30,219 --> 00:50:29,569
Zuni is because it came from the Grand

1089
00:50:32,829 --> 00:50:30,229
Canyon

1090
00:50:34,930 --> 00:50:32,839
the other cultures like up in the

1091
00:50:38,049 --> 00:50:34,940
pueblos around Albuquerque and Santa Fe

1092
00:50:41,799 --> 00:50:38,059
they got their legends that come from

1093
00:50:43,839 --> 00:50:41,809
the north the creation of those so the

1094
00:50:48,039 --> 00:50:43,849
legends are parallel when I mean

1095
00:50:49,809 --> 00:50:48,049
parallel I mean the way that the certain

1096
00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:49,819
orders are all about

1097
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:52,089
for example the client system you go to

1098
00:50:58,479 --> 00:50:55,130
any one of the pueblos and you can

1099
00:51:00,729 --> 00:50:58,489
always find the same clans that are here

1100
00:51:03,759 --> 00:51:00,739
in Zuni for example that burger client

1101
00:51:05,709 --> 00:51:03,769
the deer client is found climb you can

1102
00:51:07,930 --> 00:51:05,719
go to one of those pueblos and they're

1103
00:51:10,479 --> 00:51:07,940
the parallel with those but they're

1104
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:10,489
their languages are different there's

1105
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:13,729
basically three groups first of all is a

1106
00:51:19,959 --> 00:51:16,910
cutie spoon which are on Albuquerque and

1107
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:19,969
they that pay was which are around Santa

1108
00:51:27,130 --> 00:51:22,729
Fe and up north and the Tiwi which is

1109
00:51:30,779 --> 00:51:27,140
piw a which is Isleta Pueblo out south

1110
00:51:33,130 --> 00:51:30,789
of Albuquerque in the Taos Pueblo and

1111
00:51:35,019 --> 00:51:33,140
India tried I'll tell you what we'll

1112
00:51:37,299 --> 00:51:35,029
have to cover more of this in our next

1113
00:51:40,059 --> 00:51:37,309
section Clifford we have clifford

1114
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:40,069
mahooty our co-host this week is Chris

1115
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:42,890
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1116
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:49,630
[Music]

1117
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,290
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

1118
00:51:56,510 --> 00:51:54,240
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

1119
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:56,520
favorite programs on GCN I've got good

1120
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:58,290
news for you I'm proud to announce that

1121
00:52:03,230 --> 00:52:01,020
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

1122
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1123
00:52:07,250 --> 00:52:05,160
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1124
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:07,260
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1125
00:52:09,890 --> 00:52:07,890
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1126
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:09,900
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1127
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1128
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1129
00:52:18,890 --> 00:52:16,619
today by clicking on the banner at GC

1130
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:18,900
and live.com again that's GC and

1131
00:52:23,450 --> 00:52:21,450
live.com we the people grow cotton wheat

1132
00:52:25,099 --> 00:52:23,460
fabric engraving embeds strips and

1133
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:25,109
fibers to protect from counterfeit and

1134
00:52:27,770 --> 00:52:26,880
carding to a private bank having a LED

1135
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:27,780
packet interest

1136
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:29,520
forcing taxes to service debt this

1137
00:52:32,839 --> 00:52:31,410
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

1138
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:32,849
stating a central bank issuing the

1139
00:52:35,599 --> 00:52:34,500
public currency is a greater menace to

1140
00:52:37,370 --> 00:52:35,609
the liberties of the people than a

1141
00:52:38,540 --> 00:52:37,380
standing army Ted Anderson on placing a

1142
00:52:40,550 --> 00:52:38,550
free silver dollar in a book that

1143
00:52:43,819 --> 00:52:40,560
explains our monetary system call for

1144
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:43,829
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

1145
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:46,890
understand the system call 866 to 237

1146
00:52:57,410 --> 00:52:55,440
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

1147
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:57,420
the pair cast the gold standard of

1148
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:00,720
paranormal radio and now here's Jean

1149
00:53:14,030 --> 00:53:12,010
we returned for the second hour

1150
00:53:16,940 --> 00:53:14,040
featuring our guest clifford mahooty

1151
00:53:19,370 --> 00:53:16,950
we're talking about Indian culture and

1152
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:19,380
legends and we only touched briefly on

1153
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:22,290
those the co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm

1154
00:53:26,030 --> 00:53:23,970
gene Steinberg you're in the power cast

1155
00:53:28,730 --> 00:53:26,040
Chris why don't you take Clifford

1156
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:28,740
further into this description also about

1157
00:53:32,690 --> 00:53:31,440
his background in training well yeah one

1158
00:53:35,060 --> 00:53:32,700
of the things that Clifford mentioned

1159
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:35,070
was that the Hopi and Zuni share a

1160
00:53:41,780 --> 00:53:38,250
creation myth now why don't we just

1161
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:41,790
quickly go into four people in the

1162
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:43,110
listening audience out there who are not

1163
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:47,160
familiar with the the idea of the place

1164
00:53:53,660 --> 00:53:50,010
of emergence the Sipapu and I believe

1165
00:53:56,300 --> 00:53:53,670
you is the pronunciation why don't you

1166
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:56,310
give us a quick thumbnail sketch of how

1167
00:54:02,000 --> 00:53:59,280
the legend of the emergence of the

1168
00:54:04,820 --> 00:54:02,010
people is set up and how it might differ

1169
00:54:11,950 --> 00:54:04,830
between the Hopi and Zuni versions

1170
00:54:19,070 --> 00:54:16,580
the term that is very prevalent on all

1171
00:54:21,230 --> 00:54:19,080
tribes doesn't make any difference

1172
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:21,240
whether you go to Hopi we go to Rudy or

1173
00:54:28,310 --> 00:54:25,680
up in the north the Sipapu is the term

1174
00:54:33,850 --> 00:54:28,320
that is used for the emergence from the

1175
00:54:37,370 --> 00:54:33,860
underworld in the last in the last world

1176
00:54:40,780 --> 00:54:37,380
upheaval or when the story of the last

1177
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:40,790
world they had to go underground we

1178
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:44,010
people we were saved by the underground

1179
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:45,810
people I think the opens have very

1180
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:48,240
thoroughly discussed this about they're

1181
00:54:55,340 --> 00:54:51,440
talking being saved by the hand people

1182
00:54:58,520 --> 00:54:55,350
all Indian tried to southwestern Pueblo

1183
00:55:01,400 --> 00:54:58,530
tribes have legends of different types

1184
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:01,410
of people that are underneath the earth

1185
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:03,930
that or have been there since the

1186
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:05,730
beginning of time or beginning of the

1187
00:55:13,340 --> 00:55:08,910
earth and they have come to their rescue

1188
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:13,350
in many different times be close enough

1189
00:55:20,030 --> 00:55:17,190
to the walls before us but the parallels

1190
00:55:22,850 --> 00:55:20,040
that are between the hoping moon is that

1191
00:55:24,590 --> 00:55:22,860
we are both came from

1192
00:55:27,530 --> 00:55:24,600
the grand canyon there's a place called

1193
00:55:31,220 --> 00:55:27,540
a Sipapu I believe in the Grand Canyon

1194
00:55:33,890 --> 00:55:31,230
I've never been there but we know about

1195
00:55:37,010 --> 00:55:33,900
it through our songs and our rich I mean

1196
00:55:40,010 --> 00:55:37,020
our rituals in our designation when we

1197
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:40,020
go through prayer systems and we are we

1198
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:44,160
also refer to the fourth world

1199
00:55:48,590 --> 00:55:46,410
the fourth world we we came up from the

1200
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:48,600
fourth world and you can read any book

1201
00:55:53,060 --> 00:55:50,970
on about some of the writers that talk

1202
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:53,070
about this there's a lot of variations

1203
00:55:58,070 --> 00:55:55,680
depending on the storyteller but a lot

1204
00:56:00,320 --> 00:55:58,080
of these these legends have been

1205
00:56:03,110 --> 00:56:00,330
recorded and we talked about emergence

1206
00:56:06,140 --> 00:56:03,120
from the fourth world so there's a lot

1207
00:56:09,590 --> 00:56:06,150
of things that occurred in the past that

1208
00:56:11,570 --> 00:56:09,600
are again it says verbal knowledge and

1209
00:56:15,590 --> 00:56:11,580
it's passed on by oral tradition and

1210
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:15,600
oral rituals that we know about so we're

1211
00:56:20,090 --> 00:56:17,910
in the fourth world now correct this is

1212
00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:20,100
the the fourth the fourth world that

1213
00:56:25,870 --> 00:56:22,830
we're in now it's difficult I think for

1214
00:56:28,340 --> 00:56:25,880
some people to to grasp the idea of

1215
00:56:30,290 --> 00:56:28,350
being led underground and protected

1216
00:56:32,510 --> 00:56:30,300
while the earth goes through changes and

1217
00:56:34,370 --> 00:56:32,520
cleanses itself and then being allowed

1218
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,380
to re-emerge into this world to

1219
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:36,480
repopulate the world the Zuni have some

1220
00:56:40,850 --> 00:56:38,850
very interesting I have a very

1221
00:56:43,340 --> 00:56:40,860
interesting tradition that it does vary

1222
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:43,350
somewhat from the other versions about

1223
00:56:48,590 --> 00:56:45,090
how the people looked when they first

1224
00:56:51,290 --> 00:56:48,600
emerged and what actually happened to

1225
00:56:53,180 --> 00:56:51,300
allow humans to become the way they are

1226
00:57:04,940 --> 00:56:53,190
today you want to give us a quick

1227
00:57:09,140 --> 00:57:04,950
thumbnail on that sort of like a very

1228
00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:09,150
very fun funny sight they say that they

1229
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:12,150
were not anatomically they were not

1230
00:57:21,020 --> 00:57:16,170
writing with their Anatomy at the right

1231
00:57:24,350 --> 00:57:21,030
places so in other words after for

1232
00:57:29,870 --> 00:57:24,360
example with the Zuni legend is that

1233
00:57:33,590 --> 00:57:29,880
they had their parts of their Anatomy on

1234
00:57:36,329 --> 00:57:33,600
their faces that six fingers that six

1235
00:57:39,540 --> 00:57:36,339
pose and there were

1236
00:57:43,530 --> 00:57:39,550
the way that they are today but because

1237
00:57:45,620 --> 00:57:43,540
of the the star people that they sends

1238
00:57:48,510 --> 00:57:45,630
out here they had to correct those

1239
00:57:51,690 --> 00:57:48,520
correct those people that had been

1240
00:57:55,260 --> 00:57:51,700
inside there there for I don't know how

1241
00:57:58,920 --> 00:57:55,270
long but they start being in the dark

1242
00:58:01,140 --> 00:57:58,930
and being in that realm for ages and

1243
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:01,150
humans maybe they started having

1244
00:58:05,670 --> 00:58:03,910
different Anatomy come about but when

1245
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:05,680
they emerge into the fourth world they

1246
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:07,930
had to correct them and that's where it

1247
00:58:17,490 --> 00:58:14,050
the twin God twin gods of the son the

1248
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:17,500
father sons and the twin God to correct

1249
00:58:28,319 --> 00:58:25,210
the anatomy so would this be like a

1250
00:58:35,010 --> 00:58:28,329
genetic correction some sort of would

1251
00:58:36,810 --> 00:58:35,020
that be the modern equivalent I think

1252
00:58:40,140 --> 00:58:36,820
when I look at it from from the

1253
00:58:42,420 --> 00:58:40,150
standpoint of the ritualistic stamp on

1254
00:58:45,359 --> 00:58:42,430
the legendary standpoint I think this

1255
00:58:49,230 --> 00:58:45,369
was a way that they they corrected them

1256
00:58:50,670 --> 00:58:49,240
using very high technology to remove a

1257
00:58:53,339 --> 00:58:50,680
lot of those things and put their

1258
00:58:56,099 --> 00:58:53,349
Anatomy in the right places especially

1259
00:58:58,859 --> 00:58:56,109
like the genitals had to be put where it

1260
00:59:01,140 --> 00:58:58,869
is today and the human being and then

1261
00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:01,150
had to cut off the six fingers there's

1262
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:03,540
still a lot of places like for example

1263
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:07,119
here about 20 30 miles west of here

1264
00:59:13,740 --> 00:59:11,170
where they still have petroglyphs of

1265
00:59:16,770 --> 00:59:13,750
those type of people that were like that

1266
00:59:19,260 --> 00:59:16,780
from the origin which is which is where

1267
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:19,270
you you you took me my first trip up to

1268
00:59:27,770 --> 00:59:21,569
Zoo and he was to that particular Canyon

1269
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:31,109
that was where they were they originated

1270
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:34,089
the client system for the Zuni and

1271
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:36,010
there's that big rock that they have to

1272
00:59:41,609 --> 00:59:39,010
go through on a ritualistic to correct a

1273
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:41,619
lot of the anatomy on that so that my

1274
00:59:46,380 --> 00:59:43,810
teachings by the elders is that that

1275
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:46,390
today between gods which is very

1276
00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:49,450
prevalent in in all other pueblos too

1277
00:59:55,260 --> 00:59:52,569
it's Puebla as the twinbots and they're

1278
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:55,270
the same names whether it's in Hopi

1279
00:59:59,579 --> 00:59:57,760
whether it's in Europe in the Curie's

1280
01:00:02,670 --> 00:59:59,589
country they cut the same names and

1281
01:00:05,730 --> 01:00:02,680
they're the twin gods they came to to

1282
01:00:07,650 --> 01:00:05,740
the planet Earth to correct and to lead

1283
01:00:09,990 --> 01:00:07,660
the people out and they were actually

1284
01:00:13,170 --> 01:00:10,000
servants they were also gods but they

1285
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:13,180
were like like lesser gods if you may

1286
01:00:20,579 --> 01:00:16,930
that had specific duties to do it's God

1287
01:00:23,450 --> 01:00:20,589
or each space being star person or star

1288
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:23,460
being had very specific duties and

1289
01:00:28,589 --> 01:00:26,079
responsibilities for the creation during

1290
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:28,599
the creation so that's why but those

1291
01:00:34,020 --> 01:00:30,730
twin gods are the ones that were very

1292
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:34,030
very prevalent in the correction of the

1293
01:00:41,250 --> 01:00:38,170
human anatomy and also too for the

1294
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:41,260
migration to start the migrations it

1295
01:00:45,809 --> 01:00:42,250
sounds like a really interesting

1296
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:45,819
parallel to Enki and Enlil from Zecharia

1297
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:48,130
Sitchin's interpretations of Sumerian

1298
01:00:53,010 --> 01:00:50,890
ancient Sumerian lore and it also

1299
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:53,020
reminds me of the warrior twins of the

1300
01:00:59,130 --> 01:00:56,890
Hopi stories now you learned all this

1301
01:01:29,339 --> 01:00:59,140
information after you were brought into

1302
01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:29,349
the galaxy or clown medicine society and

1303
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:32,950
to start teaching myself about what the

1304
01:01:39,780 --> 01:01:35,200
recorded history was because this

1305
01:01:41,940 --> 01:01:39,790
information was developed by people they

1306
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:41,950
used to be here by anthropologists and

1307
01:01:47,370 --> 01:01:44,250
archaeologists and linguists and so on

1308
01:01:50,490 --> 01:01:47,380
so there's a lot of books that I read

1309
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:50,500
that has respect the background

1310
01:01:58,829 --> 01:01:54,640
information but I did not really learn

1311
01:02:02,280 --> 01:01:58,839
about this until I got into the society

1312
01:02:03,170 --> 01:02:02,290
and also get involved with the the

1313
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:03,180
different orders

1314
01:02:09,730 --> 01:02:06,690
and then to participate full-time in the

1315
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:09,740
rituals that we go through here in June

1316
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:13,410
and of course by that time a lot of our

1317
01:02:18,829 --> 01:02:16,290
elders had passed on the real truth

1318
01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:18,839
historians my grandfather was it was a

1319
01:02:23,390 --> 01:02:21,270
historian of the tribe so a lot of this

1320
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:23,400
information I got when I was a young

1321
01:02:31,220 --> 01:02:27,210
young man wow maybe a kid about 10 to 15

1322
01:02:34,010 --> 01:02:31,230
years old I did not start up until after

1323
01:02:36,020 --> 01:02:34,020
30 years old I'll tell you what let's

1324
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:36,030
continue this in our next section we

1325
01:02:41,329 --> 01:02:38,490
have Clifford Moody joining us this week

1326
01:02:51,950 --> 01:02:41,339
I'm gene Steinberg the co-host is Chris

1327
01:02:55,309 --> 01:02:51,960
O'Brien you're in the para cast is there

1328
01:02:57,260 --> 01:02:55,319
a secret UFO agenda to strange creatures

1329
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:57,270
from the darkest corners of the mind

1330
01:03:03,049 --> 01:03:00,000
roam the earth is there evidence for

1331
01:03:05,900 --> 01:03:03,059
mind control time travel or devious

1332
01:03:08,260 --> 01:03:05,910
government conspiracies find out the

1333
01:03:11,329 --> 01:03:08,270
inside scoop on the latest conspiracies

1334
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:11,339
paranormal activity and at 14 phenomena

1335
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:13,530
when you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

1336
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:14,760
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1337
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,000
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1338
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:20,400
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1339
01:03:26,510 --> 01:03:23,130
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1340
01:03:30,289 --> 01:03:26,520
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1341
01:03:32,180 --> 01:03:30,299
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1342
01:03:37,130 --> 01:03:32,190
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1343
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:37,140
do this for UFO at web TV dotnet that's

1344
01:03:49,010 --> 01:03:42,690
mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out what

1345
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:51,900
golde if you listen to the radio watch

1346
01:03:56,460 --> 01:03:54,370
TV or surf the net you are hearing about

1347
01:03:58,350 --> 01:03:56,470
gold eventually you will ask yourself is

1348
01:04:00,330 --> 01:03:58,360
gold right for me the answer might

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you carry life insurance

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trust the government gold has always

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faith in gold where will you put your

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glad you have nuclear more than just a

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on air online and on demand they say we

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offer simple answers to complex problems

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01:07:08,660 --> 01:07:06,980
we want to hear from you if you have a

1426
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:08,670
comment or question about the para cast

1427
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:11,490
send it to news at the para cast com

1428
01:07:16,850 --> 01:07:14,850
that's news at the podcast comm and if

1429
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:16,860
you want to catch up on past episodes we

1430
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:18,210
have hundreds of shows for you to

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01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:21,090
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1432
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:24,720
that's the para cast comm or check us

1433
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:31,400
we have clifford mahooty a Zuni elder

1434
01:07:36,740 --> 01:07:34,410
we're talking about the tribal culture

1435
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:36,750
about the legends of the star people I

1436
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:38,400
have a question to ask him about that in

1437
01:07:41,870 --> 01:07:39,930
a moment Chris O'Brien is the co-host

1438
01:07:44,180 --> 01:07:41,880
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the power

1439
01:07:46,490 --> 01:07:44,190
cast when I listen to these legends it

1440
01:07:49,810 --> 01:07:46,500
seems to me that almost all of the

1441
01:07:53,870 --> 01:07:49,820
world's religions have some kind of

1442
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:53,880
legend or historical experience about

1443
01:07:59,600 --> 01:07:56,130
interactions with higher being star

1444
01:08:02,840 --> 01:07:59,610
people etc etc now yes we're focusing

1445
01:08:05,690 --> 01:08:02,850
very much on your culture but don't you

1446
01:08:08,030 --> 01:08:05,700
think that maybe all of these religions

1447
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:08,040
all our remembrances of ancient man are

1448
01:08:18,910 --> 01:08:10,650
all pointing to the same sources

1449
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:22,460
mythology it seems to me that all the

1450
01:08:29,060 --> 01:08:24,770
different people throughout the world

1451
01:08:30,590 --> 01:08:29,070
I've got the same history except that

1452
01:08:32,540 --> 01:08:30,600
they had the only things that they're

1453
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:32,550
different names they have different

1454
01:08:39,650 --> 01:08:35,730
applications but I think that what the

1455
01:08:42,500 --> 01:08:39,660
Zuni say is that these are people that

1456
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:42,510
are here we're here during the creation

1457
01:08:47,390 --> 01:08:44,640
so they have they're all over them

1458
01:08:50,410 --> 01:08:47,400
they're all over the world on the planet

1459
01:08:52,460 --> 01:08:50,420
as we know it and they go like

1460
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:52,470
instantaneously to one side of the earth

1461
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:55,530
to the other side and in Zuni recalling

1462
01:09:01,820 --> 01:08:58,640
the wrong people raw in the sense that

1463
01:09:03,950 --> 01:09:01,830
you cannot see them there they can

1464
01:09:07,010 --> 01:09:03,960
become visible but I'm sure that there's

1465
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:07,020
a lot of parallels or other people

1466
01:09:11,660 --> 01:09:08,940
throughout the country or about the

1467
01:09:12,110 --> 01:09:11,670
world that are of the scene or in

1468
01:09:14,269 --> 01:09:12,120
stature

1469
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:14,279
Lyford one thing I'm curious about

1470
01:09:18,410 --> 01:09:15,679
here you're trained as an engineer

1471
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:18,420
you're dealing with hard numbers hard

1472
01:09:26,180 --> 01:09:22,289
figures now reconciling this with oral

1473
01:09:28,999 --> 01:09:26,190
traditions how does one reconcile with

1474
01:09:32,660 --> 01:09:29,009
themselves evidence of the presence of

1475
01:09:36,229 --> 01:09:32,670
these beings and as we say do you relate

1476
01:09:39,709 --> 01:09:36,239
that star people legend to the UFOs that

1477
01:09:42,529 --> 01:09:39,719
we see today well first of all the Zuni

1478
01:09:48,769 --> 01:09:42,539
people I've always had history of UFOs

1479
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:48,779
there have people say that it used to be

1480
01:09:55,790 --> 01:09:53,210
like they would come during times of

1481
01:10:04,100 --> 01:09:55,800
good times see if you're going to have a

1482
01:10:07,370 --> 01:10:04,110
good good harvest or depending on the

1483
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:07,380
interpretation and occasion that they

1484
01:10:12,979 --> 01:10:10,320
appear they've always been here we've

1485
01:10:17,089 --> 01:10:12,989
always been told one of the things that

1486
01:10:18,589 --> 01:10:17,099
we do not as Indian children don't do is

1487
01:10:21,529 --> 01:10:18,599
that we don't look up into the sky

1488
01:10:24,020 --> 01:10:21,539
that's the first thing that we are

1489
01:10:26,990 --> 01:10:24,030
taught as young people do not look up

1490
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:27,000
into the sky because they will come come

1491
01:10:31,490 --> 01:10:29,610
back and look look at you so they've

1492
01:10:33,260 --> 01:10:31,500
always been around okay but that's

1493
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:33,270
interesting here why would you not look

1494
01:10:40,279 --> 01:10:35,010
in the sky you don't want them to come

1495
01:10:43,220 --> 01:10:40,289
to you I think in the beginning you can

1496
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:43,230
see them you can see them because if you

1497
01:10:48,740 --> 01:10:45,840
look up into the sky you're asking for

1498
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:48,750
them to make contact with you I believe

1499
01:10:55,490 --> 01:10:52,170
because a lot of these a lot of these

1500
01:10:58,459 --> 01:10:55,500
things that they tell you not to do when

1501
01:11:01,129 --> 01:10:58,469
you ask a question like that so why can

1502
01:11:04,339 --> 01:11:01,139
I look up into the sky they'll tell you

1503
01:11:06,319 --> 01:11:04,349
because you're not supposed to and they

1504
01:11:08,299 --> 01:11:06,329
don't have any explanation because they

1505
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:08,309
don't want I think it's a mystery that

1506
01:11:13,970 --> 01:11:11,400
they want to keep key provided like the

1507
01:11:16,459 --> 01:11:13,980
way it is or because of early teaching

1508
01:11:19,700 --> 01:11:16,469
stolen you will never look up into the

1509
01:11:22,810 --> 01:11:19,710
sky so that that's what really was

1510
01:11:25,339 --> 01:11:22,820
intriguing to me because when I started

1511
01:11:26,810 --> 01:11:25,349
looking for things like that since these

1512
01:11:29,299 --> 01:11:26,820
things started happening

1513
01:11:32,029 --> 01:11:29,309
I've seen UFOs since I was about all

1514
01:11:35,750 --> 01:11:32,039
about when when I turned 18 years old

1515
01:11:37,580 --> 01:11:35,760
and I've seen UFOs I've seen a lot of

1516
01:11:41,029 --> 01:11:37,590
things because I always look up into the

1517
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:41,039
sky when people in loonie when they when

1518
01:11:45,140 --> 01:11:42,690
they used to do that they told him not

1519
01:11:47,419 --> 01:11:45,150
to do that so they just you never asked

1520
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:47,429
any questions okay so obviously you were

1521
01:11:51,709 --> 01:11:49,199
the questioning sort you saw these

1522
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:51,719
things can you give us more detail about

1523
01:11:59,810 --> 01:11:53,250
some of these sightings the first one

1524
01:12:02,149 --> 01:11:59,820
you were 18 you said yes we came in

1525
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:02,159
about 3 o'clock in the morning coming in

1526
01:12:06,379 --> 01:12:03,449
from Gallup New Mexico to the

1527
01:12:09,919 --> 01:12:06,389
reservations about 30 miles and we saw a

1528
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:09,929
big bright like a Sun coming up in the

1529
01:12:14,959 --> 01:12:12,300
morning but it wasn't just 3 o'clock in

1530
01:12:16,819 --> 01:12:14,969
the morning so it wasn't the Sun we came

1531
01:12:18,799 --> 01:12:16,829
into this valley and we saw it all lit

1532
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:18,809
up but we came to the reservation line

1533
01:12:30,379 --> 01:12:22,260
and in front of us was sitting this big

1534
01:12:32,330 --> 01:12:30,389
big UFO and we started started faster

1535
01:12:34,790 --> 01:12:32,340
than our car and you start started

1536
01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:34,800
following us back into the village in

1537
01:12:39,529 --> 01:12:36,630
those days they used to have AAA

1538
01:12:43,339 --> 01:12:39,539
stations throughout the country for

1539
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:43,349
airplane routes and for text or whatever

1540
01:12:49,339 --> 01:12:46,710
so we went to the airplane I mean the

1541
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:49,349
FAA station to alert those people but

1542
01:12:55,129 --> 01:12:52,409
they didn't get out and so we came I

1543
01:12:58,370 --> 01:12:55,139
came home to sue me and I said out there

1544
01:13:00,069 --> 01:12:58,380
and I watched that and I didn't realize

1545
01:13:05,540 --> 01:13:00,079
that there was two of them at that time

1546
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,550
this was in 1964 so this was I looked up

1547
01:13:10,220 --> 01:13:07,440
there and there's two of them and I

1548
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:10,230
waited until the Sun came up and they

1549
01:13:15,290 --> 01:13:12,090
were still sitting up there so I know

1550
01:13:17,660 --> 01:13:15,300
about tension since that was a real big

1551
01:13:20,209 --> 01:13:17,670
one but prior to that I had seen them

1552
01:13:23,029 --> 01:13:20,219
but I had never really thought about it

1553
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:23,039
until about that time because I've seen

1554
01:13:27,020 --> 01:13:25,170
them since I was a kid so when the Sun

1555
01:13:29,089 --> 01:13:27,030
and when the Sun came up what did you

1556
01:13:32,299 --> 01:13:29,099
see a stretch team structure craft or

1557
01:13:35,180 --> 01:13:32,309
what are they what they look like they

1558
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:35,190
were just like silver orbs you don't

1559
01:13:40,229 --> 01:13:38,130
like what they were bright during the

1560
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:40,239
night time but when when the Sun came

1561
01:13:46,020 --> 01:13:42,610
there's him there like to share were

1562
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:46,030
dull silver orbs sitting up on top of

1563
01:13:49,979 --> 01:13:48,370
well you know way up there in the sky if

1564
01:13:51,900 --> 01:13:49,989
there weren't as big as what they were

1565
01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:51,910
about three o'clock in the morning but

1566
01:13:56,610 --> 01:13:54,190
they set out there and the stars

1567
01:13:59,130 --> 01:13:56,620
disappeared and they were still sitting

1568
01:14:03,209 --> 01:13:59,140
there so that that was only I mean that

1569
01:14:05,790 --> 01:14:03,219
I moved and that they were not stars you

1570
01:14:07,470 --> 01:14:05,800
mentioned that right back around the

1571
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:07,480
time period I think it was within days

1572
01:14:12,540 --> 01:14:10,210
of the very famous Travis Walton

1573
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:12,550
abduction case which occurred just down

1574
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:14,890
the road from Zuni oh I don't know less

1575
01:14:19,740 --> 01:14:18,130
than 100 miles away that you had a very

1576
01:14:21,690 --> 01:14:19,750
interesting sighting as well with I

1577
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:21,700
think your family you want to describe

1578
01:14:38,729 --> 01:14:34,810
that for us and the one that we saw the

1579
01:14:40,620 --> 01:14:38,739
first weekend in December of 1976 we're

1580
01:14:42,780 --> 01:14:40,630
coming in from Arizona about two o'clock

1581
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:42,790
in the morning then we're driving a

1582
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:45,370
brand new car you don't add about a

1583
01:14:50,010 --> 01:14:47,890
thousand fifteen hundred miles on it so

1584
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:50,020
there was nothing wrong with the car is

1585
01:14:57,930 --> 01:14:54,400
brand new and the right side come into

1586
01:15:00,330 --> 01:14:57,940
her eyes and I saw this or orange light

1587
01:15:02,130 --> 01:15:00,340
and I could I didn't want to tell my

1588
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:02,140
brother he was driving and his

1589
01:15:07,410 --> 01:15:04,810
girlfriend so we were driving back into

1590
01:15:12,810 --> 01:15:07,420
the village going on the east going from

1591
01:15:14,850 --> 01:15:12,820
west to east these things to start

1592
01:15:17,970 --> 01:15:14,860
coming this get got bigger and bigger

1593
01:15:19,950 --> 01:15:17,980
and about a half a mile maybe even the

1594
01:15:28,620 --> 01:15:19,960
quarter of a mile off the road there's a

1595
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:28,630
big soup on that and about that time our

1596
01:15:33,690 --> 01:15:31,810
car start demon it's like okay we'll

1597
01:15:35,729 --> 01:15:33,700
talk about the I guess the

1598
01:15:36,180 --> 01:15:35,739
electromagnetic effect to your car in a

1599
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:36,190
moment

1600
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:38,320
we have clifford mahooty joining us this

1601
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:40,570
week the co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm

1602
01:15:49,290 --> 01:15:44,730
gene Steinberg you're in the para ghost

1603
01:15:55,390 --> 01:15:52,660
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1604
01:15:57,660 --> 01:15:55,400
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1605
01:16:00,040 --> 01:15:57,670
relentless perplexing nightmares

1606
01:16:01,959 --> 01:16:00,050
nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1607
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:01,969
space and of a mysterious woman

1608
01:16:07,390 --> 01:16:04,250
suffering an agony for her devastated

1609
01:16:11,250 --> 01:16:07,400
world a woman not yet born calling

1610
01:16:13,870 --> 01:16:11,260
across centuries to him then a

1611
01:16:17,169 --> 01:16:13,880
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1612
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1651
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things on the market designed to keep

1652
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1653
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1654
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peace of mind for parents do

1655
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and children you need an ice safe bag we

1656
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heard a loud noise and I could see a

1657
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flashing in the backpack the sound was

1658
01:18:08,949 --> 01:18:07,099
different than a car alarm so it was a

1659
01:18:10,509 --> 01:18:08,959
different sound so we looked to see what

1660
01:18:12,910 --> 01:18:10,519
it was I think it's a great idea

1661
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introducing the ice safe bag a backpack

1662
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that looks normal until you pull the pin

1663
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1664
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and a high intensity strobe lights Amal

1665
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taneous Li to attract immediate know

1666
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having the isafe bag gives me a feeling

1667
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of being safe because I know when I pull

1668
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the alarm people will hear and they'll

1669
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come and help me for mobile personal

1670
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1671
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1672
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calm my safe bags calm I think God that

1673
01:18:42,459 --> 01:18:40,760
she had that backpack and she had enough

1674
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sense to use it it's like having a

1675
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bodyguard with you all the time the I

1676
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safe bag the patented bag with a

1677
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1678
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1679
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1680
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1681
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1682
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1683
01:19:02,109 --> 01:19:00,050
a quality still from revenue or calm and

1684
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1685
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1686
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1687
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1688
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1689
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1690
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calm find quality alcohol stills did

1691
01:19:24,069 --> 01:19:21,979
somebody say stills

1692
01:19:26,589 --> 01:19:24,079
that's how grand Pappy made its own sour

1693
01:19:28,810 --> 01:19:26,599
mash and you can to revenuer stills can

1694
01:19:31,060 --> 01:19:28,820
be used to make Brandy's liquors whiskey

1695
01:19:32,919 --> 01:19:31,070
vodka and more all perfectly legal with

1696
01:19:34,930 --> 01:19:32,929
a permit you should check into having

1697
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your own revenue are still at revenue

1698
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com that's our evem oor dot-com or call

1699
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1700
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stills from revenue comm fine quality

1701
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alcohol stills how do you spell

1702
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hard-hitting talk radio G C

1703
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you've entered another dimension

1704
01:20:09,550 --> 01:20:27,230
[Music]

1705
01:20:32,370 --> 01:20:30,060
everybody joining us and we're all

1706
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:32,380
laughing it the way that Chris O'Brien

1707
01:20:39,900 --> 01:20:36,250
says the para cast Alicia doesn't do it

1708
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:39,910
like a trickster anymore Oh God we're in

1709
01:20:43,620 --> 01:20:41,770
trouble now ladies and gentlemen I will

1710
01:20:44,430 --> 01:20:43,630
not even begin to try to explain what

1711
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:44,440
that's all about

1712
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:45,970
I'm gene Steinberg were in the power

1713
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:47,530
cast we're talking to clifford mahooty

1714
01:20:55,650 --> 01:20:52,570
and we are immersed in his UFO sighting

1715
01:21:07,080 --> 01:20:55,660
on your car the lights are dimming let's

1716
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:07,090
pick up from there it must have been I

1717
01:21:22,890 --> 01:21:09,610
would say at that distance it must have

1718
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:22,900
been about 15 diameter and then sort of

1719
01:21:26,310 --> 01:21:25,330
like an orange to greenish light beam

1720
01:21:28,770 --> 01:21:26,320
just shut down

1721
01:21:31,470 --> 01:21:28,780
in the meantime our car just died

1722
01:21:33,870 --> 01:21:31,480
there's nothing you won't even start

1723
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:33,880
with the lights went out and everything

1724
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:36,610
died so we said let's get out of here

1725
01:21:41,460 --> 01:21:38,800
and the village was about so about a

1726
01:21:43,110 --> 01:21:41,470
mile half a mile away and it was about

1727
01:21:45,450 --> 01:21:43,120
now it's about 3 o'clock in the morning

1728
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:45,460
D was December the first weekend in

1729
01:21:52,380 --> 01:21:48,970
December so he was cold so we start we

1730
01:21:55,950 --> 01:21:52,390
got out you start running in started

1731
01:21:58,380 --> 01:21:55,960
running into the village but I got half

1732
01:22:01,290 --> 01:21:58,390
no I'm not even a quarter of a way down

1733
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:01,300
maybe about close to the village there

1734
01:22:05,340 --> 01:22:03,010
are some culverts in the highway they're

1735
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:05,350
about three feet in diameter they said

1736
01:22:12,300 --> 01:22:09,130
we cannot run this is too cold we can

1737
01:22:14,610 --> 01:22:12,310
run as fast as we'd like to Nexus walk

1738
01:22:17,010 --> 01:22:14,620
let's just hide in here until that thing

1739
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:17,020
goes away so we got into the culvert and

1740
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:19,570
we sat in there for I don't know maybe

1741
01:22:25,860 --> 01:22:23,770
about an hour and then it was so cold I

1742
01:22:28,110 --> 01:22:25,870
said we got to get out of here so we we

1743
01:22:30,540 --> 01:22:28,120
got out and that thing was feel sitting

1744
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:30,550
there when we got out and by this time

1745
01:22:35,940 --> 01:22:33,730
there was no beam that went down down

1746
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:35,950
into the sewer ponds so we started

1747
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:37,570
gaining and walking toward the village

1748
01:22:41,700 --> 01:22:39,130
we could see the really

1749
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:41,710
from the highway but it was it was

1750
01:22:45,450 --> 01:22:43,330
really cold it must have been about or

1751
01:22:49,709 --> 01:22:45,460
maybe about zero degrees by that time

1752
01:22:51,810 --> 01:22:49,719
and so we saw a car or we thought it was

1753
01:22:54,150 --> 01:22:51,820
a car coming down in the back of us

1754
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:54,160
coming from Arizona and I said whatever

1755
01:22:59,850 --> 01:22:56,170
we do let's just get in front of that

1756
01:23:02,130 --> 01:22:59,860
car so we'll stop so this car took a

1757
01:23:05,130 --> 01:23:02,140
long time to come he must have been only

1758
01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:05,140
going about 10 to 15 miles per hour by

1759
01:23:08,850 --> 01:23:07,600
the time that car caught up with us we

1760
01:23:11,010 --> 01:23:08,860
were in the middle of the road we were

1761
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:11,020
waving our hands we're trying to tell

1762
01:23:15,810 --> 01:23:14,050
him to stop and it finally stopped and

1763
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:15,820
without asking any questions we just

1764
01:23:19,860 --> 01:23:18,400
jumped into the car because he was cold

1765
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:19,870
and we had to get out of there we were

1766
01:23:25,770 --> 01:23:22,570
scared we jumped in the car and the car

1767
01:23:28,470 --> 01:23:25,780
started moving but it was really strange

1768
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:28,480
because the dashboard of the car looked

1769
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:30,880
like one of those old-timer cars about

1770
01:23:37,140 --> 01:23:34,570
19 I'd say about the 19 right before the

1771
01:23:38,940 --> 01:23:37,150
Second World War vintage and the reason

1772
01:23:41,010 --> 01:23:38,950
that I knew that was because there were

1773
01:23:43,770 --> 01:23:41,020
these straps that were in the backseat

1774
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:43,780
that used to hold in the old cars they

1775
01:23:48,630 --> 01:23:46,570
were hanging like that and and I saw the

1776
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:48,640
dashboard and it looks like a green

1777
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:51,370
light and I saw the guy that was driving

1778
01:23:55,380 --> 01:23:53,410
it but I couldn't really make up the

1779
01:23:57,300 --> 01:23:55,390
details of his face or whatever he

1780
01:24:00,420 --> 01:23:57,310
wasn't talking I was jabber know where I

1781
01:24:02,850 --> 01:24:00,430
was talking to him and in the back there

1782
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:02,860
was a guy sittin in there where my my

1783
01:24:08,580 --> 01:24:05,050
brother and his girlfriend jumped in and

1784
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:08,590
this guy was holding two dolls raggedy

1785
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:10,810
Hannah Raggedy Andy dolls and just

1786
01:24:15,180 --> 01:24:12,880
looking at us they didn't say anything

1787
01:24:16,590 --> 01:24:15,190
and we were just dabbing away and say

1788
01:24:19,290 --> 01:24:16,600
that you see that thing that just

1789
01:24:21,870 --> 01:24:19,300
happened and they still sitting there

1790
01:24:23,820 --> 01:24:21,880
and just kept going about ten miles per

1791
01:24:27,060 --> 01:24:23,830
hour we finally got into the village and

1792
01:24:29,310 --> 01:24:27,070
started turning around and eating what's

1793
01:24:32,070 --> 01:24:29,320
the one thing the earth peculiar was

1794
01:24:34,440 --> 01:24:32,080
that that guy did not stop at stop signs

1795
01:24:36,930 --> 01:24:34,450
and we kept going around the village we

1796
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:36,940
finally got in front of her mom's house

1797
01:24:41,100 --> 01:24:39,010
and said let's get out of here we opened

1798
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:41,110
the doors we finally got out I don't

1799
01:24:45,959 --> 01:24:43,690
know how we got out but we we got out we

1800
01:24:47,790 --> 01:24:45,969
walked into the house and this is about

1801
01:24:50,790 --> 01:24:47,800
now this is about four o'clock in the

1802
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:50,800
morning still dark we got into the house

1803
01:24:57,069 --> 01:24:53,090
I told my parents

1804
01:24:59,229 --> 01:24:57,079
Oh my parents well we had gone through

1805
01:25:03,549 --> 01:24:59,239
and they sort of didn't believe us and

1806
01:25:06,129 --> 01:25:03,559
then my brother was already in bed so he

1807
01:25:08,410 --> 01:25:06,139
got up and he said what's going on

1808
01:25:10,330 --> 01:25:08,420
so I said come over here and look at

1809
01:25:12,580 --> 01:25:10,340
these things in those days I had

1810
01:25:15,399 --> 01:25:12,590
night-vision binoculars

1811
01:25:18,790 --> 01:25:15,409
and we went out the back door and right

1812
01:25:22,299 --> 01:25:18,800
on top of our house was this this UFO

1813
01:25:25,569 --> 01:25:22,309
sitting there and I looked up there and

1814
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:25,579
on there was a dome-like structure over

1815
01:25:28,779 --> 01:25:27,050
there and I could see things walking

1816
01:25:31,510 --> 01:25:28,789
around in there there's about three or

1817
01:25:34,060 --> 01:25:31,520
four of them and I was looking through

1818
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:34,070
them with binoculars but I couldn't

1819
01:25:37,919 --> 01:25:35,690
really make out the details on that

1820
01:25:40,689 --> 01:25:37,929
because this is like looking at a

1821
01:25:43,450 --> 01:25:40,699
stadium football stadium with people

1822
01:25:45,189 --> 01:25:43,460
walking up there at a very huge distance

1823
01:25:48,850 --> 01:25:45,199
you can't really make out the details

1824
01:25:52,450 --> 01:25:48,860
it's kind of fuzzy and so it sat there

1825
01:25:54,189 --> 01:25:52,460
for a long time for about maybe 15 20

1826
01:25:57,010 --> 01:25:54,199
minutes we just got back in the house

1827
01:25:58,930 --> 01:25:57,020
and and we just forgot about it I mean

1828
01:26:02,229 --> 01:25:58,940
we just got scared and we went back in

1829
01:26:05,859 --> 01:26:02,239
there this is one of the herd lots of

1830
01:26:09,490 --> 01:26:05,869
stories in reports of UFOs extending

1831
01:26:11,859 --> 01:26:09,500
beams apparent apparently of light down

1832
01:26:13,270 --> 01:26:11,869
into bodies of water but to be honest

1833
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:13,280
this is the first time I've ever heard

1834
01:26:17,529 --> 01:26:15,530
of a UFO extending a beam down into a

1835
01:26:20,859 --> 01:26:17,539
sewer Lagoon do you think they were

1836
01:26:22,870 --> 01:26:20,869
emptying out the bilge or this is this

1837
01:26:24,850 --> 01:26:22,880
pretty interesting detail I've never

1838
01:26:26,919 --> 01:26:24,860
I've never actually heard that before

1839
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:26,929
that's but that's pretty fascinating I

1840
01:26:32,140 --> 01:26:30,170
don't know I think my first one

1841
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:32,150
nothing after I thought about it I said

1842
01:26:36,310 --> 01:26:33,650
maybe they were picking up some type of

1843
01:26:39,879 --> 01:26:36,320
a because a lot of algae forms in there

1844
01:26:41,410 --> 01:26:39,889
and the sewer pump being an engineer you

1845
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:41,420
know there's there's a lot of algae that

1846
01:26:47,770 --> 01:26:43,840
grows in there at that time of the year

1847
01:26:50,500 --> 01:26:47,780
but before turn over you know the winter

1848
01:26:53,319 --> 01:26:50,510
and the summer turnovers and wintertime

1849
01:26:55,029 --> 01:26:53,329
there's a lot of algae growth that

1850
01:26:56,799 --> 01:26:55,039
that's why I'm in the springtime when

1851
01:26:59,020 --> 01:26:56,809
these overturns you can smell a lot of

1852
01:27:01,810 --> 01:26:59,030
sweet all over the place from I don't

1853
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:01,820
know it's that's one thing that was very

1854
01:27:06,350 --> 01:27:05,360
peculiar about that time you know this

1855
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:06,360
was one

1856
01:27:12,620 --> 01:27:08,850
a week or maybe within ten days of the

1857
01:27:15,050 --> 01:27:12,630
Travis Walton experience in that you

1858
01:27:16,939 --> 01:27:15,060
took that you took the distance right

1859
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:16,949
there it's probably about listen well

1860
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:18,570
maybe about a hundred miles between

1861
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:22,010
where he was picked up in where we were

1862
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:25,380
but after that it's left and we never

1863
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:28,170
saw it but there's a lot of experiences

1864
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:30,570
that a lot a lot of people have told me

1865
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:33,360
about those type of encounters right

1866
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:35,610
here in the village they actually come

1867
01:27:41,540 --> 01:27:37,440
down here especially during winter time

1868
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:41,550
during our what we call our salah cool

1869
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:44,130
festivities in the about the first

1870
01:27:49,310 --> 01:27:46,770
weekend offender no you mentioned a very

1871
01:27:52,189 --> 01:27:49,320
interesting Canyon that's east and

1872
01:27:54,709 --> 01:27:52,199
southeast of the village where for quite

1873
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:54,719
a number of years it appeared that these

1874
01:27:59,540 --> 01:27:56,489
objects seemed to be coming and going

1875
01:28:02,959 --> 01:27:59,550
from this particular Canyon and there's

1876
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:02,969
a some sort of taboo spot there cave

1877
01:28:07,790 --> 01:28:05,130
that the people aren't really allowed to

1878
01:28:10,419 --> 01:28:07,800
go tour it's strongly suggested not to

1879
01:28:28,609 --> 01:28:10,429
go there do you want to describe some of

1880
01:28:32,359 --> 01:28:28,619
their this particular Canyon that Canyon

1881
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:32,369
goes I would say about maybe about 30 to

1882
01:28:40,609 --> 01:28:36,239
40 miles he comes out there towards the

1883
01:28:44,750 --> 01:28:40,619
place fence flake model area and that is

1884
01:28:50,649 --> 01:28:44,760
a place where a lot of activity perhaps

1885
01:29:06,950 --> 01:28:54,410
and he was a huge one it's a huge one a

1886
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:06,960
friend of mine in that Canyon exactly

1887
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:09,570
that was quite an interesting story and

1888
01:29:15,950 --> 01:29:12,570
they were walking back and camping in

1889
01:29:17,629 --> 01:29:15,960
the canyon and Dan woke up and there was

1890
01:29:18,820 --> 01:29:17,639
a huge object hovering right over him

1891
01:29:20,350 --> 01:29:18,830
and he woke his

1892
01:29:25,450 --> 01:29:20,360
his brother up who wanted to shoot it

1893
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:25,460
with a rifle not advisable I don't know

1894
01:29:30,070 --> 01:29:28,010
I would say we don't want to shoot down

1895
01:29:32,140 --> 01:29:30,080
those UFOs because there's always the

1896
01:29:34,090 --> 01:29:32,150
fear they may shoot back at us we have

1897
01:29:36,850 --> 01:29:34,100
clifford mahooty joining us this week

1898
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:36,860
I'm Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris

1899
01:29:51,939 --> 01:29:49,169
[Music]

1900
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1901
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1920
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1953
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1954
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1955
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1956
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1957
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1960
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1961
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1969
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1970
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1976
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1977
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what is a wind generator how can the

1978
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wind produce power for a small cabin how

1979
01:32:59,830 --> 01:32:57,500
can wind energy be stored and used

1980
01:33:02,320 --> 01:32:59,840
during an emergency can I assemble my

1981
01:33:04,300 --> 01:33:02,330
own wind generator for answers to

1982
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questions about wind power visit winds

1983
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1984
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1985
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1988
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1989
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1990
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1991
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1992
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1993
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across the country utilize our products

1994
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1995
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1996
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1997
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1998
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1999
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2000
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2001
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2002
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2003
01:33:54,490 --> 01:33:51,590
two six tired of searching for great

2004
01:33:57,310 --> 01:33:54,500
talk radio search no more I just want to

2005
01:34:01,819 --> 01:33:57,320
hear more of it we are the gcn radio

2006
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:05,839
you're in the podcast you never know

2007
01:34:14,010 --> 01:34:12,250
next kalos is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

2008
01:34:15,810 --> 01:34:14,020
Steinberg you're in the power cast we're

2009
01:34:17,819 --> 01:34:15,820
talking to clifford mahooty and we've

2010
01:34:20,069 --> 01:34:17,829
been mentioning at least for the last

2011
01:34:21,780 --> 01:34:20,079
few minutes UFO sightings that he

2012
01:34:24,180 --> 01:34:21,790
experienced that other people

2013
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:24,190
experienced do you think perhaps because

2014
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:25,810
so many sightings are occurring there on

2015
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:27,730
the reservation that maybe you're being

2016
01:34:39,870 --> 01:34:37,690
singled out for some reason and again

2017
01:34:43,379 --> 01:34:39,880
going back to what I said previously is

2018
01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:43,389
that in times of good and bad depending

2019
01:34:47,580 --> 01:34:45,280
on what it is I think the reason that

2020
01:34:50,069 --> 01:34:47,590
they're appearing more often is about

2021
01:34:52,169 --> 01:34:50,079
the things that probably be happening

2022
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:52,179
pretty soon especially right now with

2023
01:34:56,609 --> 01:34:54,010
with the people or whether we're all

2024
01:35:00,600 --> 01:34:56,619
going through a lot of turmoil and also

2025
01:35:03,870 --> 01:35:00,610
with a lot of the weather problems and a

2026
01:35:05,669 --> 01:35:03,880
lot of different activities related to

2027
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:05,679
the earth itself I think that these are

2028
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:08,650
or teachings are that they will be

2029
01:35:13,530 --> 01:35:12,610
coming prior to what may be happening in

2030
01:35:17,129 --> 01:35:13,540
the future

2031
01:35:21,419 --> 01:35:17,139
and we have not seen this much UFO

2032
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:21,429
activity but starting about 19 about

2033
01:35:24,899 --> 01:35:22,449
1980

2034
01:35:28,140 --> 01:35:24,909
about the late eighties - about now we

2035
01:35:30,390 --> 01:35:28,150
see them almost on a nightly basis over

2036
01:35:32,250 --> 01:35:30,400
here does anyone have any photos of

2037
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:32,260
these things I think there's a lot of

2038
01:35:39,810 --> 01:35:35,199
there's a lot of photos here but it's

2039
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:39,820
very again it's taboo to talk about

2040
01:35:44,660 --> 01:35:41,650
these things among as many people

2041
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:44,670
because of their teachings they always

2042
01:35:50,069 --> 01:35:47,530
say wow that's not good you're not

2043
01:35:51,149 --> 01:35:50,079
supposed to take pictures whatever why

2044
01:35:53,550 --> 01:35:51,159
is it taboo

2045
01:35:55,379 --> 01:35:53,560
well because it's it's a bad omen

2046
01:35:57,839 --> 01:35:55,389
according to the teachings it's a bad

2047
01:36:08,700 --> 01:35:57,849
omen so are you saying that the UFOs are

2048
01:36:11,530 --> 01:36:08,710
piloted by evil beings then follow the

2049
01:36:14,020 --> 01:36:11,540
Deacons I believe this is what why

2050
01:36:15,910 --> 01:36:14,030
they're appearing more often over here

2051
01:36:17,740 --> 01:36:15,920
because we're not following the Zuni

2052
01:36:21,010 --> 01:36:17,750
people or now following the protocols

2053
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:21,020
they were given centuries and I don't

2054
01:36:25,420 --> 01:36:23,690
know years ago they're not following the

2055
01:36:29,140 --> 01:36:25,430
teachings I believe this is why they're

2056
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:29,150
there in constant appearances now than

2057
01:36:32,410 --> 01:36:29,690
ever

2058
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:32,420
so you're saying then that the beings or

2059
01:36:37,330 --> 01:36:35,210
whatever in control these UFOs are aware

2060
01:36:39,070 --> 01:36:37,340
that people aren't following the

2061
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:39,080
teachings somehow to let us see what

2062
01:36:46,510 --> 01:36:42,290
well that is correct

2063
01:36:49,090 --> 01:36:46,520
they my analysis of what is happening

2064
01:36:51,610 --> 01:36:49,100
based upon again my teachings and what

2065
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:51,620
they talked about is that they believe

2066
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:53,570
that they're appearing for many reasons

2067
01:36:59,050 --> 01:36:55,010
and one of them is that they're not

2068
01:37:01,540 --> 01:36:59,060
following the protocols given by them in

2069
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:01,550
the beginning of the earth they're not

2070
01:37:06,220 --> 01:37:03,890
following the practices that were given

2071
01:37:08,770 --> 01:37:06,230
as far as rituals are concerned they're

2072
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:08,780
not even in sync they're not in sync

2073
01:37:12,940 --> 01:37:10,730
with the time schedules which is the

2074
01:37:16,480 --> 01:37:12,950
moon system in the Sun system in the

2075
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:16,490
seasons there are so many people are not

2076
01:37:22,480 --> 01:37:19,330
following what is supposed to be

2077
01:37:25,330 --> 01:37:22,490
ritualistic scheduling and they're also

2078
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:25,340
not following the orders that they are

2079
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:28,850
given to do especially those people that

2080
01:37:33,690 --> 01:37:30,320
are ahead of a lot of different

2081
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:33,700
priesthood a lot of societies a lot of

2082
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:36,890
medicine orders and also the people in

2083
01:37:41,950 --> 01:37:39,410
general they're now following what we

2084
01:37:43,510 --> 01:37:41,960
have been told to do given by the star

2085
01:37:45,370 --> 01:37:43,520
people and I think this is the reason

2086
01:37:47,650 --> 01:37:45,380
that they're appearing more often I

2087
01:37:52,690 --> 01:37:47,660
don't think that it really has anything

2088
01:37:55,570 --> 01:37:52,700
to do with what may be happening as far

2089
01:37:57,460 --> 01:37:55,580
as Sunnis concerned but I believe it's

2090
01:38:00,240 --> 01:37:57,470
because what the rest of the world is

2091
01:38:04,330 --> 01:38:00,250
doing because the Sunnis were put here

2092
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:04,340
to be protected battles for the future

2093
01:38:08,890 --> 01:38:06,170
and that's why they're here where we are

2094
01:38:11,230 --> 01:38:08,900
at say Madonna tried the Hopi for

2095
01:38:12,550 --> 01:38:11,240
example do you find also Clifford that

2096
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:12,560
more and more of the members of the

2097
01:38:18,100 --> 01:38:15,770
tribes become assimilated in the outside

2098
01:38:20,310 --> 01:38:18,110
world they don't come back to your

2099
01:38:22,890 --> 01:38:20,320
reservation to live

2100
01:38:26,190 --> 01:38:22,900
especially the younger ones yes it

2101
01:38:29,430 --> 01:38:26,200
started happening this ancient teachings

2102
01:38:33,570 --> 01:38:29,440
were kind of let loose right after World

2103
01:38:35,490 --> 01:38:33,580
War two and and towards the I mean

2104
01:38:37,830 --> 01:38:35,500
during the Johnson administration of the

2105
01:38:42,150 --> 01:38:37,840
Great Society this is where we started

2106
01:38:45,680 --> 01:38:42,160
losing the the practices and that's why

2107
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:45,690
we're we are now sort of in a downhill

2108
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:51,840
slope as far as gaining our rituals and

2109
01:38:58,410 --> 01:38:55,210
keeping intact the the teachings that

2110
01:39:02,040 --> 01:38:58,420
were given us many many whatever many

2111
01:39:05,010 --> 01:39:02,050
years ago now when you discuss UFOs a

2112
01:39:08,220 --> 01:39:05,020
lot of times where you see UFOs other

2113
01:39:10,580 --> 01:39:08,230
events occur such as strange creatures

2114
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:10,590
are there legends for example of

2115
01:39:20,430 --> 01:39:12,970
Sasquatch Bigfoot whatever you want to

2116
01:39:24,420 --> 01:39:20,440
call it again let me go back to what I

2117
01:39:29,130 --> 01:39:24,430
said earlier about these people meaning

2118
01:39:34,430 --> 01:39:29,140
of the those type of creatures or beings

2119
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:34,440
or they are wrong people and they also

2120
01:39:44,130 --> 01:39:38,650
they can appear in three-dimensional

2121
01:39:49,530 --> 01:39:44,140
forms if they want to or the same way

2122
01:39:54,020 --> 01:39:49,540
with other beings that that can come to

2123
01:40:00,240 --> 01:39:54,030
you in also terms of good if you ask for

2124
01:40:03,390 --> 01:40:00,250
certain ritual practices to help out the

2125
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:03,400
society they will also appear and they

2126
01:40:09,660 --> 01:40:06,130
said that the zuni's literal meaning is

2127
01:40:11,790 --> 01:40:09,670
that they go by the air the literal

2128
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:11,800
meaning is that they called by the hair

2129
01:40:17,610 --> 01:40:14,170
in other words they just spoke right

2130
01:40:21,210 --> 01:40:17,620
here that's why every day in our in our

2131
01:40:24,330 --> 01:40:21,220
practices of the Zuni way we are sitting

2132
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:24,340
here with them we are standing here with

2133
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:26,800
them but we have to stand behind them in

2134
01:40:29,490 --> 01:40:27,730
at their feet

2135
01:40:31,710 --> 01:40:29,500
where we're supposed to be very humble

2136
01:40:33,100 --> 01:40:31,720
because they're here they're watching us

2137
01:40:35,410 --> 01:40:33,110
all the time

2138
01:40:39,790 --> 01:40:35,420
and their call we refer to them as the

2139
01:40:41,950 --> 01:40:39,800
Watchers or the keeper of our ways and

2140
01:40:43,540 --> 01:40:41,960
they know exactly what all of us are

2141
01:40:47,140 --> 01:40:43,550
doing it doesn't make any difference

2142
01:40:49,180 --> 01:40:47,150
what order or how how high you are up in

2143
01:40:53,109 --> 01:40:49,190
the order system they know exactly what

2144
01:40:55,500 --> 01:40:53,119
what we're doing what I'm doing and

2145
01:40:58,660 --> 01:40:55,510
that's why that's why when people

2146
01:41:01,270 --> 01:40:58,670
violate them there's no punishment

2147
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:01,280
because they say well the wrong people

2148
01:41:07,570 --> 01:41:03,290
will take care of them so this is why

2149
01:41:09,790 --> 01:41:07,580
this is white reiterated to all of us

2150
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:09,800
that if you don't so it's up to you if

2151
01:41:13,930 --> 01:41:12,290
you don't want to do this then we'll let

2152
01:41:16,649 --> 01:41:13,940
the wrong people take care of you that's

2153
01:41:19,359 --> 01:41:16,659
what they tell you there's no punishment

2154
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:19,369
your friend Rick when I was up there a

2155
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:22,159
couple of visits ago had he lives on the

2156
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:24,489
kind of on the edge of the village and

2157
01:41:28,810 --> 01:41:27,290
he mentioned a series of Bigfoot

2158
01:41:30,459 --> 01:41:28,820
encounters that he had that were quite

2159
01:41:38,189 --> 01:41:30,469
interesting new do you want to relate

2160
01:41:44,229 --> 01:41:41,020
three miles from here it's up on the net

2161
01:41:46,660 --> 01:41:44,239
he lives up on a plateau laughter and

2162
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:46,670
one time he was coming back from Gallup

2163
01:41:53,820 --> 01:41:50,810
in Mexico and about about couple miles

2164
01:41:57,669 --> 01:41:53,830
from his house they came across his road

2165
01:42:00,459 --> 01:41:57,679
and they they came upon it Bigfoot

2166
01:42:02,709 --> 01:42:00,469
character creature or whatever and they

2167
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:02,719
he was right in the middle of the road

2168
01:42:07,930 --> 01:42:05,810
or side of the road he said and then

2169
01:42:09,729 --> 01:42:07,940
when they put the lights on him they

2170
01:42:11,919 --> 01:42:09,739
stopped and they put the lights on him

2171
01:42:13,450 --> 01:42:11,929
and he just walked across the pavement

2172
01:42:18,220 --> 01:42:13,460
the pavements are all I'd say about

2173
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:18,230
maybe about 1215 feet across he said he

2174
01:42:23,620 --> 01:42:20,449
just took a few steps across the road

2175
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:23,630
and he went over there and he he just

2176
01:42:28,689 --> 01:42:25,850
went over a Broadway offense which

2177
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:28,699
usually are about maybe three or four

2178
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:33,530
feet high for right right away and he

2179
01:42:37,500 --> 01:42:35,090
just stepped over it so it must have

2180
01:42:43,060 --> 01:42:37,510
been about eight to ten feet tall and

2181
01:42:46,540 --> 01:42:43,070
when he saw that he said he got scared

2182
01:42:50,940 --> 01:42:46,550
first but then he thought out of screen

2183
01:42:56,410 --> 01:42:50,950
I believe he said after he left and then

2184
01:43:01,210 --> 01:42:56,420
about 2 or 3 nights later he also heard

2185
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:01,220
the same scream and pretty soon he would

2186
01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:03,770
hear that screams and then later on it

2187
01:43:07,810 --> 01:43:06,080
just went away for a while then he said

2188
01:43:09,910 --> 01:43:07,820
that he kind of got lonesome for his

2189
01:43:13,990 --> 01:43:09,920
scream because he knew that he was a

2190
01:43:16,150 --> 01:43:14,000
living being and he he was kind of

2191
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:16,160
wondering whatever happened to to him

2192
01:43:20,940 --> 01:43:18,170
but he said that after he thought about

2193
01:43:24,070 --> 01:43:20,950
it and he will come back and he would

2194
01:43:27,100 --> 01:43:24,080
make a scream again to let him know that

2195
01:43:31,510 --> 01:43:27,110
he was still around but there's a lot of

2196
01:43:34,090 --> 01:43:31,520
also other people has seen something

2197
01:43:37,150 --> 01:43:34,100
like that in this one road that goes

2198
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:37,160
from Zuni to Gallup sort of like a back

2199
01:43:44,230 --> 01:43:40,370
road but it's paid now so that one

2200
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:44,240
Canyon is full of creatures that a lot

2201
01:43:47,770 --> 01:43:46,400
of people with psychic powers don't even

2202
01:43:49,420 --> 01:43:47,780
go through there because they're afraid

2203
01:43:51,700 --> 01:43:49,430
of it well I have to stay away from

2204
01:43:52,870 --> 01:43:51,710
there if I even visit your tribe and I

2205
01:43:54,220 --> 01:43:52,880
think I'm gonna want to do that I

2206
01:43:58,720 --> 01:43:54,230
wouldn't want to travel over there and

2207
01:44:01,060 --> 01:43:58,730
learn such an i gene with me when he's

2208
01:44:04,180 --> 01:44:01,070
home from Spain so I have some moral

2209
01:44:06,460 --> 01:44:04,190
support our guest this week on the power

2210
01:44:08,440 --> 01:44:06,470
cast is clifford mahooty a Zuni elder

2211
01:44:10,900 --> 01:44:08,450
we've been talking about Indian legends

2212
01:44:13,780 --> 01:44:10,910
but more modern experiences involving

2213
01:44:16,480 --> 01:44:13,790
UFOs and strange creatures by the way we

2214
01:44:18,730 --> 01:44:16,490
want your reaction all this as always go

2215
01:44:21,730 --> 01:44:18,740
to forum down to the power cast com

2216
01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:21,740
forum dot the power cast com sign up

2217
01:44:26,020 --> 01:44:23,450
it's free and that gives you the chance

2218
01:44:28,440 --> 01:44:26,030
to participate in the discussions or not

2219
01:44:31,630 --> 01:44:28,450
up to you our co-host this week is

2220
01:44:34,860 --> 01:44:31,640
Christopher O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

2221
01:44:39,260 --> 01:44:34,870
you're in the para cast

2222
01:44:41,910 --> 01:44:39,270
[Music]

2223
01:44:43,890 --> 01:44:41,920
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

2224
01:44:46,140 --> 01:44:43,900
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

2225
01:44:47,910 --> 01:44:46,150
favorite programs on GCN I've got good

2226
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:47,920
news for you I'm proud to announce that

2227
01:44:52,830 --> 01:44:50,650
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

2228
01:44:54,780 --> 01:44:52,840
for our dedicated listeners at GCN

2229
01:44:56,879 --> 01:44:54,790
live.com listen to your favorite

2230
01:44:58,950 --> 01:44:56,889
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

2231
01:45:01,169 --> 01:44:58,960
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

2232
01:45:03,570 --> 01:45:01,179
best part the gcn iPhone app can be

2233
01:45:05,399 --> 01:45:03,580
yours absolutely free download the

2234
01:45:08,540 --> 01:45:05,409
iPhone app today by clicking on the

2235
01:45:11,100 --> 01:45:08,550
banner at GCN live.com again that's GCN

2236
01:45:12,810 --> 01:45:11,110
live.com hi this is Ted Anderson have

2237
01:45:14,340 --> 01:45:12,820
you ever wondered why banks stockbrokers

2238
01:45:16,229 --> 01:45:14,350
investment advisors won't talk about

2239
01:45:18,750 --> 01:45:16,239
gold IRAs they've been available since

2240
01:45:20,490 --> 01:45:18,760
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2241
01:45:21,180 --> 01:45:20,500
recognize the value of gold for your

2242
01:45:23,070 --> 01:45:21,190
retirement

2243
01:45:25,229 --> 01:45:23,080
gold has outperformed paper investments

2244
01:45:38,060 --> 01:45:25,239
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

2245
01:45:38,070 --> 01:45:58,280
806-853-9949

2246
01:46:03,180 --> 01:46:01,379
we have the final hour with clifford

2247
01:46:05,359 --> 01:46:03,190
mahooty we're talking about Indian

2248
01:46:08,370 --> 01:46:05,369
legends and culture and strange

2249
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:08,380
paranormal events our co-host is Chris

2250
01:46:12,629 --> 01:46:10,330
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

2251
01:46:15,030 --> 01:46:12,639
power cast before we go on we do have

2252
01:46:17,010 --> 01:46:15,040
one question another question from our

2253
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:17,020
forum it comes from one of our

2254
01:46:21,570 --> 01:46:18,850
moderators Angelo who happens to be a

2255
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:21,580
skeptic by the way okay so understand

2256
01:46:25,140 --> 01:46:22,449
where I'm coming from

2257
01:46:26,850 --> 01:46:25,150
Clifford here's what he says a lot of

2258
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:26,860
what I have heard is evidence regarding

2259
01:46:33,030 --> 01:46:29,770
this topic comes from Native art having

2260
01:46:35,160 --> 01:46:33,040
studied First Nations art I wonder why

2261
01:46:37,229 --> 01:46:35,170
we need to turn to the paranormal to

2262
01:46:39,300 --> 01:46:37,239
explain it from all I've heard on the

2263
01:46:41,550 --> 01:46:39,310
subject the more plausible and accepted

2264
01:46:44,430 --> 01:46:41,560
theory around the interesting figures in

2265
01:46:48,510 --> 01:46:44,440
the art is that they stem from myths and

2266
01:46:50,970 --> 01:46:48,520
dreams okay so he also asked why do we

2267
01:46:52,950 --> 01:46:50,980
need to make the jump to ETS keep in

2268
01:46:55,470 --> 01:46:52,960
mind I have learned what I know about

2269
01:46:59,040 --> 01:46:55,480
the topic for a professor that is First

2270
01:47:01,680 --> 01:46:59,050
Nations timís scamming I guess that's

2271
01:47:03,540 --> 01:47:01,690
what he calls a Timmy scamming so it

2272
01:47:05,820 --> 01:47:03,550
isn't like I picked it up from Wikipedia

2273
01:47:07,950 --> 01:47:05,830
or something I understand the artwork

2274
01:47:10,620 --> 01:47:07,960
and nothing leads me to believe that it

2275
01:47:12,780 --> 01:47:10,630
has to do with aliens I have a feeling

2276
01:47:15,419 --> 01:47:12,790
I'll be shaking my head through most of

2277
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:15,429
this episode so he's a skeptic Clifford

2278
01:47:27,629 --> 01:47:24,240
probably from the interpretation of

2279
01:47:29,970 --> 01:47:27,639
themselves putting it on say like

2280
01:47:33,890 --> 01:47:29,980
sketches or paintings but a lot of these

2281
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:33,900
paintings are related to those that

2282
01:47:39,810 --> 01:47:37,360
where they got the information from was

2283
01:47:42,270 --> 01:47:39,820
probably from the same books that he's

2284
01:47:45,149 --> 01:47:42,280
talking about maybe from different

2285
01:47:46,770 --> 01:47:45,159
archaeologists and anthropologists a lot

2286
01:47:49,859 --> 01:47:46,780
of your bench apologists and

2287
01:47:54,510 --> 01:47:49,869
archeologists for example they called a

2288
01:47:56,959 --> 01:47:54,520
Kachina society a Kachina cult a lot of

2289
01:48:00,240 --> 01:47:56,969
them to say that they invented this

2290
01:48:03,479 --> 01:48:00,250
probably about right after Chaco culture

2291
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:03,489
had disappeared but these ones had that

2292
01:48:06,379 --> 01:48:05,650
so that interpretation will never be

2293
01:48:11,469 --> 01:48:06,389
there and

2294
01:48:14,509 --> 01:48:11,479
Indian people American Indian

2295
01:48:17,389 --> 01:48:14,519
communities and have them explained to

2296
01:48:21,290 --> 01:48:17,399
you where they came from according to

2297
01:48:23,239 --> 01:48:21,300
the different tribes the interpretation

2298
01:48:27,529 --> 01:48:23,249
is the hardest one that's why he would

2299
01:48:30,020 --> 01:48:27,539
take some would take a Native American

2300
01:48:33,159 --> 01:48:30,030
from that particular tribe that has the

2301
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:33,169
background and the teachings say like in

2302
01:48:38,689 --> 01:48:36,209
mythology or anthropology to actually

2303
01:48:41,209 --> 01:48:38,699
make that interpretation this is where I

2304
01:48:44,029 --> 01:48:41,219
come in from from that standpoint is

2305
01:48:46,699 --> 01:48:44,039
that it took me about 40 years to

2306
01:48:50,719 --> 01:48:46,709
interpret what is on paper what is the

2307
01:48:53,839 --> 01:48:50,729
teachings in two parallel or connected

2308
01:48:56,659 --> 01:48:53,849
with with what the rituals are all about

2309
01:49:00,020 --> 01:48:56,669
a lot of these information is esoteric

2310
01:49:02,689 --> 01:49:00,030
because you do not hear this outside the

2311
01:49:05,359 --> 01:49:02,699
key was you do not hear this outside the

2312
01:49:08,359 --> 01:49:05,369
medicine orders you cannot hear this

2313
01:49:10,639 --> 01:49:08,369
outside even the minimal in a society

2314
01:49:14,049 --> 01:49:10,649
system unless you actually know the

2315
01:49:16,339 --> 01:49:14,059
language and unless you actually

2316
01:49:18,319 --> 01:49:16,349
participated in this type of ritual

2317
01:49:19,069 --> 01:49:18,329
there's no way that you can make that

2318
01:49:22,489 --> 01:49:19,079
connection

2319
01:49:25,399 --> 01:49:22,499
I understand that the paintings and the

2320
01:49:26,899 --> 01:49:25,409
pictures and whatever can be made and

2321
01:49:29,779 --> 01:49:26,909
say that well there's a connection there

2322
01:49:32,689 --> 01:49:29,789
but until you really understand it and

2323
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:32,699
and become part of that Indian tribe

2324
01:49:40,419 --> 01:49:35,760
then you really never will know so then

2325
01:49:48,679 --> 01:49:44,060
sit down understand on a one-on-one

2326
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:48,689
basis to each one of those say like for

2327
01:49:53,000 --> 01:49:50,610
a painting what is this guy trying to

2328
01:49:55,879 --> 01:49:53,010
interpret here sure it's a dream but a

2329
01:49:59,779 --> 01:49:55,889
lot of us have a lot of dreamscapes too

2330
01:50:01,639 --> 01:49:59,789
we go to that it's an experience it's

2331
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:01,649
not only a dream but it's also an

2332
01:50:07,759 --> 01:50:04,639
experience we see these things in our

2333
01:50:09,439 --> 01:50:07,769
when we're dreaming and when we when we

2334
01:50:13,279 --> 01:50:09,449
put it on paper it's just like a

2335
01:50:16,219 --> 01:50:13,289
musician a lot of your music is derived

2336
01:50:18,589 --> 01:50:16,229
from a higher being that is put on paper

2337
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:18,599
and you have to that's all that comes

2338
01:50:22,939 --> 01:50:19,650
into your

2339
01:50:25,939 --> 01:50:22,949
your your music it's the same thing can

2340
01:50:28,490 --> 01:50:25,949
apply into your art where it comes from

2341
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:28,500
it's a mystery but we do not question

2342
01:50:35,209 --> 01:50:32,730
that we do not try to analyze it we do

2343
01:50:37,370 --> 01:50:35,219
not try not to dissect it because it's

2344
01:50:39,860 --> 01:50:37,380
just the way it is I think they're not a

2345
01:50:41,540 --> 01:50:39,870
good example would be the petroglyphs if

2346
01:50:43,790 --> 01:50:41,550
you went over there and try to explain

2347
01:50:46,570 --> 01:50:43,800
the petroglyphs that's another that's

2348
01:50:49,130 --> 01:50:46,580
another different arena as far as

2349
01:50:50,689 --> 01:50:49,140
interpretation is concerned these people

2350
01:50:53,810 --> 01:50:50,699
that make the picture please

2351
01:50:56,209 --> 01:50:53,820
so actually saw those things and then

2352
01:50:58,459 --> 01:50:56,219
put them on the rock so that they can

2353
01:51:00,439 --> 01:50:58,469
have a reference to it and another

2354
01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:00,449
person then can come over here and make

2355
01:51:05,149 --> 01:51:02,489
a wrong interpretation as to what that

2356
01:51:07,939 --> 01:51:05,159
individual has put in centuries and

2357
01:51:11,450 --> 01:51:07,949
centuries ago so it's very difficult to

2358
01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:11,460
explain it sounds like it's not as it's

2359
01:51:17,330 --> 01:51:15,449
it's the outsider attempting to use

2360
01:51:20,899 --> 01:51:17,340
their points of reference to do the

2361
01:51:23,419 --> 01:51:20,909
explanation as opposed to going to you

2362
01:51:26,570 --> 01:51:23,429
know the lineage or the source of the

2363
01:51:29,209 --> 01:51:26,580
particular creative picture petroglyph

2364
01:51:31,610 --> 01:51:29,219
and getting the information as it's

2365
01:51:33,020 --> 01:51:31,620
understood by the indigenous person I I

2366
01:51:35,720 --> 01:51:33,030
think you bring up a very good point

2367
01:51:38,390 --> 01:51:35,730
there one of the other incidences that

2368
01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:38,400
you mentioned early on when we met was a

2369
01:51:44,300 --> 01:51:41,730
very curious event it occurred on the

2370
01:51:46,220 --> 01:51:44,310
reservation there where what was

2371
01:51:48,620 --> 01:51:46,230
described as a Thunderbird crashed

2372
01:51:50,540 --> 01:51:48,630
against a cliff face and then sat there

2373
01:51:52,220 --> 01:51:50,550
for a number of days would you like to

2374
01:52:25,490 --> 01:51:52,230
relate that story that's a really

2375
01:52:26,780 --> 01:52:25,500
intriguing because we don't have any

2376
01:52:28,580 --> 01:52:26,790
clocks here we don't have any

2377
01:52:31,140 --> 01:52:28,590
challengers you just say that what this

2378
01:52:33,330 --> 01:52:31,150
occurred there's a

2379
01:52:35,820 --> 01:52:33,340
it's right next to the Continental

2380
01:52:38,850 --> 01:52:35,830
Divide and there is what they call the

2381
01:52:41,610 --> 01:52:38,860
heart back that runs north and south

2382
01:52:45,210 --> 01:52:41,620
parallel to the Continental Divide and

2383
01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:45,220
it's a village out there well this this

2384
01:52:54,750 --> 01:52:49,690
lady used to be leave out there with her

2385
01:52:59,070 --> 01:52:54,760
husband and during one rainstorm it was

2386
01:53:02,820 --> 01:52:59,080
heavy rainstorm at nighttime and Nick's

2387
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:02,830
say next morning when the man went out

2388
01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:08,530
to work on his farm or his doctor they

2389
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:10,690
heard something the night before and

2390
01:53:17,640 --> 01:53:15,370
like a big big noise that happened and

2391
01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:17,650
then when they came out the next day of

2392
01:53:24,210 --> 01:53:20,260
course the clouds are gone and the Sun

2393
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:24,220
was up and whatever and there was a look

2394
01:53:31,350 --> 01:53:26,770
like he they call it for lack of a

2395
01:53:34,050 --> 01:53:31,360
better term a Thunderbird or a living

2396
01:53:38,430 --> 01:53:34,060
thing that was plastered against this

2397
01:53:40,650 --> 01:53:38,440
big Hogback rock up there I'd say about

2398
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:40,660
20 or 30 foot off the ground

2399
01:53:47,430 --> 01:53:43,330
and that that thing stayed up there for

2400
01:53:50,010 --> 01:53:47,440
about two or three days I believe but in

2401
01:53:51,750 --> 01:53:50,020
those days when people saw things like

2402
01:53:56,100 --> 01:53:51,760
that they just kind of let things alone

2403
01:53:58,140 --> 01:53:56,110
they did not try to interpret it or they

2404
01:54:00,780 --> 01:53:58,150
didn't try to they didn't have the

2405
01:54:02,820 --> 01:54:00,790
curiosity go over there and see what it

2406
01:54:05,670 --> 01:54:02,830
is they just observed it and they said

2407
01:54:08,010 --> 01:54:05,680
about the fourth day I guess it came to

2408
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:08,020
and he flew off again but that thing was

2409
01:54:14,670 --> 01:54:10,810
huge according to the stories that are

2410
01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:14,680
told over here so it must have been some

2411
01:54:28,260 --> 01:54:24,730
type of a living thing maybe like a man

2412
01:54:30,420 --> 01:54:28,270
type thing or something that flew and it

2413
01:54:32,220 --> 01:54:30,430
hit there during the rainstorm so that

2414
01:54:34,440 --> 01:54:32,230
that's one of them that's one of the

2415
01:54:36,630 --> 01:54:34,450
stories that are told over here and

2416
01:54:38,220 --> 01:54:36,640
there's many more like that well these

2417
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:38,230
are things were going to have to explore

2418
01:54:42,090 --> 01:54:40,330
as we go along very quickly before we

2419
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:42,100
split for our next segment of the

2420
01:54:44,070 --> 01:54:42,880
episode

2421
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:44,080
what about UFO

2422
01:54:56,220 --> 01:54:46,690
abductions are you having incidences of

2423
01:54:58,680 --> 01:54:56,230
those happening right now it really is

2424
01:55:01,500 --> 01:54:58,690
not abductions I think that they're

2425
01:55:04,290 --> 01:55:01,510
doing a lot of bad things right now I've

2426
01:55:06,810 --> 01:55:04,300
heard spirits of people saying that

2427
01:55:08,820 --> 01:55:06,820
there's a lot of things that are a lot

2428
01:55:12,750 --> 01:55:08,830
of activity around the Zuni Reservation

2429
01:55:15,060 --> 01:55:12,760
that is not good even clear people down

2430
01:55:17,550 --> 01:55:15,070
in New Zealand in Australia

2431
01:55:21,510 --> 01:55:17,560
talk to me about these things but I

2432
01:55:23,400 --> 01:55:21,520
don't know whether that they said that

2433
01:55:25,410 --> 01:55:23,410
there's a lot of blood around the

2434
01:55:26,910 --> 01:55:25,420
western edge of the reservation I'm

2435
01:55:28,920 --> 01:55:26,920
going to want to ask you about that in a

2436
01:55:31,140 --> 01:55:28,930
moment clifford mahooty joining us this

2437
01:55:34,590 --> 01:55:31,150
week our co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm

2438
01:55:38,450 --> 01:55:34,600
gene Steinberg you're in the power cast

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[Music]

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talk janice great talk radio is here on

2547
01:59:56,339 --> 01:59:54,510
we want to hear from you if you have a

2548
01:59:59,910 --> 01:59:56,349
comment or question about the pair cast

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02:00:03,629 --> 01:59:59,920
send it to news at the para cast com

2550
02:00:05,250 --> 02:00:03,639
that's news at the para cast calm and

2551
02:00:07,979 --> 02:00:05,260
don't forget to visit our famous pair

2552
02:00:10,620 --> 02:00:07,989
cast community forums at forum dot the

2553
02:00:17,370 --> 02:00:10,630
para cast com get in on all the action

2554
02:00:19,620 --> 02:00:17,380
at forum dot the para cast comm we have

2555
02:00:22,109 --> 02:00:19,630
some more time to spend with clifford

2556
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:22,119
mahooty we appreciate that he's joining

2557
02:00:26,820 --> 02:00:24,730
us with a lot of very fascinating

2558
02:00:28,589 --> 02:00:26,830
information the co-host is Chris O'Brien

2559
02:00:30,959 --> 02:00:28,599
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the power

2560
02:00:36,660 --> 02:00:30,969
cast okay blood are you talking about

2561
02:00:40,050 --> 02:00:36,670
people being harmed or what again going

2562
02:00:44,129 --> 02:00:40,060
back to the things that are occurring

2563
02:00:45,990 --> 02:00:44,139
because of certain activities related to

2564
02:00:48,149 --> 02:00:46,000
the rest of the world in other words

2565
02:00:51,030 --> 02:00:48,159
there's a lot of war that wars that are

2566
02:00:53,910 --> 02:00:51,040
going on there's a lot of strife within

2567
02:00:55,859 --> 02:00:53,920
within the Sunni reservation do not

2568
02:01:00,810 --> 02:00:55,869
believe there's a lot of invasion not

2569
02:01:05,189 --> 02:01:00,820
only about people and also other bad

2570
02:01:07,979 --> 02:01:05,199
actors from the from the arena and I

2571
02:01:11,550 --> 02:01:07,989
think this is occurring because there

2572
02:01:17,879 --> 02:01:11,560
are certain things that thinking they're

2573
02:01:20,729 --> 02:01:17,889
probably seeking ways to find out Indian

2574
02:01:24,180 --> 02:01:20,739
tribes I've had a lot of people talk

2575
02:01:27,359 --> 02:01:24,190
about the Indian tribes still have the

2576
02:01:30,060 --> 02:01:27,369
spiritual connection in other words they

2577
02:01:32,580 --> 02:01:30,070
still practice a lot of the ways that

2578
02:01:36,300 --> 02:01:32,590
were given by the Creator and I believe

2579
02:01:39,180 --> 02:01:36,310
that a lot of these you may be in keys

2580
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:39,190
or trying to make up for what they had

2581
02:01:44,729 --> 02:01:43,090
lost with their advanced technology so I

2582
02:01:46,830 --> 02:01:44,739
think that that's what they're looking

2583
02:01:49,050 --> 02:01:46,840
for and they're trying to find out what

2584
02:01:51,479 --> 02:01:49,060
is happening because we kept a lot of

2585
02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:51,489
this a lot of these protocols in

2586
02:01:57,020 --> 02:01:54,610
practice but at the same time it's just

2587
02:02:00,240 --> 02:01:57,030
like anything else there's good and bad

2588
02:02:02,370 --> 02:02:00,250
that aliens or good and bad space people

2589
02:02:03,310 --> 02:02:02,380
I mean it's just like that throughout

2590
02:02:04,810 --> 02:02:03,320
the whole universe

2591
02:02:07,569 --> 02:02:04,820
there's good people and there's bad

2592
02:02:10,780 --> 02:02:07,579
people so I think a lot of these are bad

2593
02:02:14,760 --> 02:02:10,790
people that are trying to take some type

2594
02:02:17,680 --> 02:02:14,770
of a resource that they have with it's

2595
02:02:19,689 --> 02:02:17,690
what is with the Indian tribes

2596
02:02:22,800 --> 02:02:19,699
themselves or whether it's with the

2597
02:02:26,290 --> 02:02:22,810
earth itself so it's very hard to

2598
02:02:29,649 --> 02:02:26,300
determine because we were not told of

2599
02:02:32,589 --> 02:02:29,659
these things in legends or in our

2600
02:02:36,810 --> 02:02:32,599
kitchen but you will you do have a very

2601
02:02:40,450 --> 02:02:36,820
rich prophecy tradition of prophecy and

2602
02:02:41,890 --> 02:02:40,460
like the Hopi the Zuni have pretty

2603
02:02:44,319 --> 02:02:41,900
specific things that they've been

2604
02:02:46,780 --> 02:02:44,329
looking for down through the ages to

2605
02:02:49,810 --> 02:02:46,790
give them an indication of where we are

2606
02:02:56,939 --> 02:02:49,820
in the circle of the cycle of life in

2607
02:04:14,350 --> 02:02:56,949
the circle of time in the tradition as

2608
02:04:15,709 --> 02:04:14,360
it occurs in illegal aliens continue the

2609
02:04:18,620 --> 02:04:15,719
ways of the creator

2610
02:04:21,560 --> 02:04:18,630
they will fall apart in the Regis orders

2611
02:04:25,009 --> 02:04:21,570
and many many things sacred will be lost

2612
02:04:27,950 --> 02:04:25,019
we have been seeing this since like I

2613
02:04:31,279 --> 02:04:27,960
said to end the Second World War end of

2614
02:04:34,129 --> 02:04:31,289
the Second World War - there's a lot of

2615
02:04:36,709 --> 02:04:34,139
reasons for that and of course the

2616
02:04:42,950 --> 02:04:36,719
biggest one is that we became like white

2617
02:04:45,529 --> 02:04:42,960
men we used to be in other things other

2618
02:04:49,310 --> 02:04:45,539
than doing our ritual practices and we

2619
02:04:50,569 --> 02:04:49,320
have adopted a lot of different ways for

2620
02:04:52,549 --> 02:04:50,579
example we didn't have electricity

2621
02:04:58,009 --> 02:04:52,559
within that television we didn't have

2622
02:05:00,739 --> 02:04:58,019
microwaves we didn't have cars so and

2623
02:05:03,109 --> 02:05:00,749
then we're not following up or the way

2624
02:05:05,299 --> 02:05:03,119
that the Creator had set us up to be so

2625
02:05:07,399 --> 02:05:05,309
we're on the other side of the fence and

2626
02:05:10,279 --> 02:05:07,409
that's what the rounders used to talk

2627
02:05:12,529 --> 02:05:10,289
about when we become white man then all

2628
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:12,539
things will be lost and just simple is

2629
02:05:17,149 --> 02:05:14,130
that I mean there's a lot of logic

2630
02:05:19,009 --> 02:05:17,159
behind that well where are we in the

2631
02:05:23,660 --> 02:05:19,019
fourth world process according to the

2632
02:05:28,089 --> 02:05:23,670
Hopi you know a lot of pop culture New

2633
02:05:29,899 --> 02:05:28,099
Age interpretation there is a popular of

2634
02:05:32,180 --> 02:05:29,909
conception out there that we're at the

2635
02:05:54,830 --> 02:05:32,190
end of the fourth world do does your

2636
02:05:57,890 --> 02:05:54,840
culture feel the same 1919 they say that

2637
02:06:00,500 --> 02:05:57,900
we are now if you look at it from the

2638
02:06:05,689 --> 02:06:00,510
head or the cat go all the way on the

2639
02:06:08,810 --> 02:06:05,699
back or to the tail if that's the time

2640
02:06:12,049 --> 02:06:08,820
schedule in the 50s people used to talk

2641
02:06:15,529 --> 02:06:12,059
about we are now at the end of the cat's

2642
02:06:19,719 --> 02:06:15,539
tail which means that we're at we're at

2643
02:06:22,160 --> 02:06:19,729
the verge of the end end times so about

2644
02:06:24,529 --> 02:06:22,170
1960s and 1970s

2645
02:06:27,380 --> 02:06:24,539
they said that we have fallen off the

2646
02:06:28,880 --> 02:06:27,390
end of the cat's tail which means that

2647
02:06:31,790 --> 02:06:28,890
[Music]

2648
02:06:36,230 --> 02:06:31,800
we are now in the state of turmoil which

2649
02:06:39,080 --> 02:06:36,240
we no longer have the that capacity to

2650
02:06:42,130 --> 02:06:39,090
control what will happen after this

2651
02:06:44,420 --> 02:06:42,140
because we already violated a lot of

2652
02:06:48,170 --> 02:06:44,430
different systems that were put in place

2653
02:06:50,330 --> 02:06:48,180
by the Creator so that prophecy was

2654
02:06:53,780 --> 02:06:50,340
talked about when I was a young man and

2655
02:07:01,310 --> 02:06:53,790
I need to just say you know what that's

2656
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:01,320
kind of strange and or a catch to know

2657
02:07:05,480 --> 02:07:03,330
why don't they say there's a clock or

2658
02:07:08,270 --> 02:07:05,490
there's a certain thing but but that's

2659
02:07:10,490 --> 02:07:08,280
just so the way that they used to do

2660
02:07:15,200 --> 02:07:10,500
this a letter like parables it's sort of

2661
02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:15,210
like sort of like references to certain

2662
02:07:20,210 --> 02:07:17,370
things because that's the only thing

2663
02:07:23,480 --> 02:07:20,220
that they had as far as schedules were

2664
02:07:25,720 --> 02:07:23,490
concerned in the old days so in other

2665
02:07:28,100 --> 02:07:25,730
words it's not like a series of

2666
02:07:31,820 --> 02:07:28,110
prophecies that are fulfilled as in the

2667
02:07:35,870 --> 02:07:31,830
Hopi tradition examples would be the

2668
02:07:39,830 --> 02:07:35,880
spider webs in the sky the you know the

2669
02:07:43,720 --> 02:07:39,840
railroad tracks the telegraph wires that

2670
02:07:47,780 --> 02:07:43,730
sort of thing if you don't have specific

2671
02:07:51,260 --> 02:07:47,790
descriptions of benchmarks let's say in

2672
02:07:54,260 --> 02:07:51,270
history that have been reached and

2673
02:07:58,690 --> 02:07:54,270
fulfilled to indicate how far down or

2674
02:07:58,700 --> 02:08:04,630
[Music]

2675
02:08:11,210 --> 02:08:07,130
and when the Spanish first came over

2676
02:08:12,740 --> 02:08:11,220
here and they they knew the priesthood

2677
02:08:14,540 --> 02:08:12,750
and I guess in those days they had

2678
02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:14,550
prophets that knew about those people

2679
02:08:19,310 --> 02:08:16,530
but at that time they did not realize

2680
02:08:22,160 --> 02:08:19,320
that they were going to be as

2681
02:08:23,480 --> 02:08:22,170
treacherous as they were when when they

2682
02:08:25,490 --> 02:08:23,490
first encountered them

2683
02:08:27,470 --> 02:08:25,500
okay well we'll get into more of this in

2684
02:08:30,140 --> 02:08:27,480
the next segment we have clifford

2685
02:08:34,290 --> 02:08:30,150
mahooty Chris O'Brien is the co-host I'm

2686
02:08:40,110 --> 02:08:34,300
gene Steinberg you're in the para cast

2687
02:08:46,270 --> 02:08:44,140
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

2688
02:08:48,790 --> 02:08:46,280
creatures from the darkest corners of

2689
02:08:51,610 --> 02:08:48,800
the mind roam the earth is there

2690
02:08:55,300 --> 02:08:51,620
evidence for mind control time travel or

2691
02:08:56,920 --> 02:08:55,310
devious government conspiracies find out

2692
02:08:59,950 --> 02:08:56,930
the inside scoop on the latest

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conspiracies Paranormal Activity and at

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40 and phenomenon when you subscribe to

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Tim Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

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berkey water purification systems this

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fluoride and less than 2 cents per

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today tired of searching for great talk

2784
02:13:02,930 --> 02:13:01,040
we have Christopher O'Brien as our

2785
02:13:05,049 --> 02:13:02,940
co-host the guest is clifford mahooty a

2786
02:13:07,939 --> 02:13:05,059
Zuni elder we're talking now about

2787
02:13:09,890 --> 02:13:07,949
prophecies and general I suppose I'm

2788
02:13:12,290 --> 02:13:09,900
gene steinberger in the power cast so

2789
02:13:13,879 --> 02:13:12,300
let's be more specific about this they

2790
02:13:15,950 --> 02:13:13,889
predicted the arrival of the white man

2791
02:13:30,140 --> 02:13:15,960
let's go to something more recent

2792
02:13:32,089 --> 02:13:30,150
what else was predicted accurately that

2793
02:13:34,879 --> 02:13:32,099
was one of the things that really

2794
02:13:37,819 --> 02:13:34,889
puzzled me for a long time this is now

2795
02:13:40,700 --> 02:13:37,829
again I learned this and this was before

2796
02:13:44,239 --> 02:13:40,710
computers this is before television this

2797
02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:44,249
was before microwave appliances and I

2798
02:13:49,910 --> 02:13:46,530
believe this is what this is what's

2799
02:13:52,669 --> 02:13:49,920
happening right now is that because the

2800
02:13:57,620 --> 02:13:52,679
interpretation was direct in other words

2801
02:13:59,629 --> 02:13:57,630
that way way back you said our furniture

2802
02:14:01,009 --> 02:13:59,639
will eat us alive I think this is what's

2803
02:14:03,410 --> 02:14:01,019
happening right now if you look at

2804
02:14:10,669 --> 02:14:03,420
microwave technology radiation and so

2805
02:14:13,729 --> 02:14:10,679
long and it's eating us alive become

2806
02:14:16,069 --> 02:14:13,739
dark weather by the atmosphere becoming

2807
02:14:24,229 --> 02:14:16,079
a stool or the blockage of the Sun

2808
02:14:26,540 --> 02:14:24,239
that's also another prediction it's

2809
02:14:37,790 --> 02:14:26,550
happened in the past according to zuni

2810
02:14:40,219 --> 02:14:37,800
we reverse polarity the other thing is

2811
02:14:43,640 --> 02:14:40,229
that there won't be a rumbling of the

2812
02:14:46,219 --> 02:14:43,650
earth and it will not cease when the

2813
02:14:47,870 --> 02:14:46,229
town song first came about this is why a

2814
02:14:50,299 --> 02:14:47,880
lot of Indian tribes are becoming

2815
02:14:52,910 --> 02:14:50,309
concerned I believe it still I think

2816
02:14:55,310 --> 02:14:52,920
that's a prelude to the rumbling that's

2817
02:14:58,250 --> 02:14:55,320
going to be happening the vibrations

2818
02:15:01,399 --> 02:14:58,260
will will cause the earth to open up and

2819
02:15:04,700 --> 02:15:01,409
that's where the bottom creatures like

2820
02:15:06,020 --> 02:15:04,710
the furry little furry little creature

2821
02:15:09,110 --> 02:15:06,030
guys in

2822
02:15:12,140 --> 02:15:09,120
four will be coming out and of course

2823
02:15:15,170 --> 02:15:12,150
the biggest one that they talked about

2824
02:15:18,470 --> 02:15:15,180
was that towards the end there will be a

2825
02:15:23,630 --> 02:15:18,480
foul odor which were enveloped the earth

2826
02:15:26,720 --> 02:15:23,640
and sorrow odor will be will be all over

2827
02:15:29,870 --> 02:15:26,730
and the zuni will be part of it that's

2828
02:15:32,930 --> 02:15:29,880
our order and in the last time when when

2829
02:15:35,690 --> 02:15:32,940
this up happened tell us when they had

2830
02:15:37,850 --> 02:15:35,700
believed in that about volcanoes when

2831
02:15:39,710 --> 02:15:37,860
you said foul odor I did think volcanoes

2832
02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:39,720
but I wanted to ask you here is this

2833
02:15:47,900 --> 02:15:43,290
like the 2012 predictions at all is that

2834
02:15:49,880 --> 02:15:47,910
when all this is going to happen it's

2835
02:15:53,060 --> 02:15:49,890
cool infighting with that it's

2836
02:15:57,320 --> 02:15:53,070
coinciding of course you know 2012 you

2837
02:16:01,010 --> 02:15:57,330
asked about that you know we've got a

2838
02:16:02,570 --> 02:16:01,020
blank stare but in my way of thinking I

2839
02:16:05,030 --> 02:16:02,580
believe this is part of the whole

2840
02:16:08,000 --> 02:16:05,040
process that's happening all over the

2841
02:16:10,660 --> 02:16:08,010
world because again Sunnis are very

2842
02:16:14,660 --> 02:16:10,670
isolated they don't have the

2843
02:16:16,520 --> 02:16:14,670
interpretation that is like like I am

2844
02:16:19,900 --> 02:16:16,530
doing they don't have the analysis and

2845
02:16:22,700 --> 02:16:19,910
they don't have the back-and-forth

2846
02:16:26,170 --> 02:16:22,710
interpretation of what what is happening

2847
02:16:31,880 --> 02:16:26,180
with for example 2012 predictions and

2848
02:16:33,350 --> 02:16:31,890
also what their own predictions well I

2849
02:16:36,740 --> 02:16:33,360
find it very interesting that there's

2850
02:16:40,100 --> 02:16:36,750
correlations with the Hopi prophecy of

2851
02:16:41,900 --> 02:16:40,110
the world flipping over the Maya for

2852
02:16:44,480 --> 02:16:41,910
instance have a prophecy of the Sun not

2853
02:16:48,310 --> 02:16:44,490
coming up one morning I'm seeing very

2854
02:16:50,629 --> 02:16:48,320
interesting parallels that sound like it

2855
02:16:52,850 --> 02:16:50,639
Mahad that they're all connected way

2856
02:16:54,709 --> 02:16:52,860
back and in some sort of pretty

2857
02:16:58,700 --> 02:16:54,719
historical times when all these legends

2858
02:17:00,740 --> 02:16:58,710
I think we're first really really began

2859
02:17:03,680 --> 02:17:00,750
and there seems to be a connecting point

2860
02:17:07,070 --> 02:17:03,690
in a lot of this well what do you think

2861
02:17:10,720 --> 02:17:07,080
Clifford do you feel that there's hope

2862
02:17:13,520 --> 02:17:10,730
for the Zuni people are the are the

2863
02:17:15,379 --> 02:17:13,530
stories being passed down and their

2864
02:17:17,599 --> 02:17:15,389
traditions being conveyed

2865
02:17:22,339 --> 02:17:17,609
enough so that the culture is going to

2866
02:17:24,379 --> 02:17:22,349
survive and in in a fairly pure form the

2867
02:17:28,490 --> 02:17:24,389
Sunnis will survive just like in the

2868
02:17:37,099 --> 02:17:28,500
past I believe that there will be they

2869
02:17:40,399 --> 02:17:37,109
were also going to earlier clifford

2870
02:17:43,240 --> 02:17:40,409
about going into caves to avoid being

2871
02:17:45,729 --> 02:17:43,250
harmed during natural or unnatural

2872
02:17:51,860 --> 02:17:45,739
cataclysm so you go back to the caves I

2873
02:17:54,559 --> 02:17:51,870
think that what I think interpretation I

2874
02:17:56,750 --> 02:17:54,569
think the next one instead of going back

2875
02:17:59,089 --> 02:17:56,760
into the underworld I believe is going

2876
02:18:01,639 --> 02:17:59,099
to happen to blow up into the upper

2877
02:18:05,509 --> 02:18:01,649
world which means the sky now I've had a

2878
02:18:08,059 --> 02:18:05,519
lot of correlations with a lot of other

2879
02:18:12,740 --> 02:18:08,069
tribes to say that I think they'll be

2880
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:12,750
picked up by the space brothers you may

2881
02:18:17,899 --> 02:18:16,050
while all this thing is happening and I

2882
02:18:20,120 --> 02:18:17,909
believe that instead of going back down

2883
02:18:23,059 --> 02:18:20,130
under I think that they're going to go

2884
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:23,069
up to the heavens and to be saved there

2885
02:18:27,740 --> 02:18:25,170
we haven't have a lot of space people

2886
02:18:35,599 --> 02:18:27,750
though to handle how many people would

2887
02:18:38,839 --> 02:18:35,609
be involved here anything is possible

2888
02:18:41,629 --> 02:18:38,849
because they're magical people they can

2889
02:18:45,110 --> 02:18:41,639
they can create a world up there was

2890
02:18:52,160 --> 02:18:45,120
sort of like a holding holding tank if

2891
02:18:55,189 --> 02:18:52,170
you may and I think most of them would

2892
02:18:59,299 --> 02:18:55,199
not survive anyway according to a lot of

2893
02:19:01,790 --> 02:18:59,309
a lot of things that a lot of Sunnis

2894
02:19:04,759 --> 02:19:01,800
talk about a lot of them will be some of

2895
02:19:06,139 --> 02:19:04,769
us will be destroyed one of the things I

2896
02:19:08,149 --> 02:19:06,149
wonder about here one of the predictions

2897
02:19:11,570 --> 02:19:08,159
are not so much predictions with the

2898
02:19:13,339 --> 02:19:11,580
theories about UFOs Huayra beings etc is

2899
02:19:15,740 --> 02:19:13,349
that they are interdimensional they're

2900
02:19:18,049 --> 02:19:15,750
not coming from a star system here but

2901
02:19:22,199 --> 02:19:18,059
in a parallel world which is why they

2902
02:19:25,000 --> 02:19:22,209
are here so often and so ever-present

2903
02:19:27,689 --> 02:19:25,010
[Music]

2904
02:19:33,059 --> 02:19:27,699
again the

2905
02:19:35,820 --> 02:19:33,069
the zuni were we're here if you look at

2906
02:19:38,309 --> 02:19:35,830
the creation myth if they were they had

2907
02:19:41,429 --> 02:19:38,319
to have come from somewhere prior to

2908
02:19:43,559 --> 02:19:41,439
that commonality the Sipapu in Grand

2909
02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:43,569
Canyon so they must have come from a

2910
02:19:49,019 --> 02:19:46,330
different world prior to them being over

2911
02:19:50,849 --> 02:19:49,029
here and that's what if you really go

2912
02:19:52,790 --> 02:19:50,859
deep into it I believe that they were

2913
02:19:55,590 --> 02:19:52,800
pulled over here from a different world

2914
02:19:57,689 --> 02:19:55,600
maybe because of their worlds that were

2915
02:20:01,590 --> 02:19:57,699
destroyed over there so but it will

2916
02:20:04,380 --> 02:20:01,600
continue I have no I have not heard

2917
02:20:07,019 --> 02:20:04,390
anything anywhere where you'll be

2918
02:20:09,059 --> 02:20:07,029
destroyed the the people will be

2919
02:20:12,090 --> 02:20:09,069
destroyed according to our religions in

2920
02:20:15,389 --> 02:20:12,100
our mythology we will they will continue

2921
02:20:17,550 --> 02:20:15,399
but it's going to the question is how

2922
02:20:19,590 --> 02:20:17,560
are they going to survive and I think

2923
02:20:23,429 --> 02:20:19,600
this is a this is one of the things that

2924
02:20:26,460 --> 02:20:23,439
were lost many years ago and I think

2925
02:20:32,340 --> 02:20:26,470
that it's feel here but again it's

2926
02:20:34,439 --> 02:20:32,350
become a very hard analysis because a

2927
02:20:36,990 --> 02:20:34,449
lot of those people that had knowledge

2928
02:20:39,330 --> 02:20:37,000
are no longer here which are you know

2929
02:20:41,790 --> 02:20:39,340
they passed on and they did not pass on

2930
02:20:42,950 --> 02:20:41,800
the knowledge one of the things of

2931
02:20:45,870 --> 02:20:42,960
course we worry about when we have

2932
02:20:48,300 --> 02:20:45,880
prophecies like this we have oral

2933
02:20:49,769 --> 02:20:48,310
legends is we have a whole bunch of

2934
02:20:51,210 --> 02:20:49,779
people out there who are going to say

2935
02:20:53,969 --> 02:20:51,220
well there's no written record of this

2936
02:20:56,639 --> 02:20:53,979
why should we believe it it's just some

2937
02:21:07,639 --> 02:20:56,649
people who believe different things and

2938
02:21:12,090 --> 02:21:07,649
different stories we just say well you

2939
02:21:17,490 --> 02:21:12,100
just sort of accept it and what is going

2940
02:21:21,750 --> 02:21:17,500
to happen and you sort of I guess work

2941
02:21:23,820 --> 02:21:21,760
your whole life around that and so the

2942
02:21:27,990 --> 02:21:23,830
attitude because whatever will be will

2943
02:21:30,960 --> 02:21:28,000
be and so that because in our prayer

2944
02:21:35,160 --> 02:21:30,970
systems we talked about when the day

2945
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:35,170
comes the wrong people again this could

2946
02:21:41,310 --> 02:21:38,170
be the connection from the space cards

2947
02:21:44,670 --> 02:21:41,320
will be the ones will take care of us

2948
02:21:47,700 --> 02:21:44,680
so that's that's the way that they they

2949
02:21:50,820 --> 02:21:47,710
sort of wrap it up whatever will be will

2950
02:21:54,210 --> 02:21:50,830
be but all that day comes will be

2951
02:21:56,340 --> 02:21:54,220
protected by those if you had followed

2952
02:21:58,980 --> 02:21:56,350
the polar cause and if you had followed

2953
02:22:03,180 --> 02:21:58,990
the system that was given us so that's

2954
02:22:04,650 --> 02:22:03,190
what keeps a scene in line so that so

2955
02:22:07,670 --> 02:22:04,660
that's basically what it is it's very

2956
02:22:10,650 --> 02:22:07,680
difficult to explain or you know to

2957
02:22:13,020 --> 02:22:10,660
interpret what because there was no

2958
02:22:15,360 --> 02:22:13,030
again no written language and there is

2959
02:22:17,730 --> 02:22:15,370
nobody to interpret it so I just picked

2960
02:22:20,370 --> 02:22:17,740
things up and I just analyzed it from

2961
02:22:22,800 --> 02:22:20,380
from my fam I'd say what will analyze

2962
02:22:25,020 --> 02:22:22,810
this for one more segment in a moment we

2963
02:22:27,270 --> 02:22:25,030
have clifford mahooty our co-host is

2964
02:22:29,970 --> 02:22:27,280
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

2965
02:22:36,040 --> 02:22:29,980
in the Americas

2966
02:22:41,380 --> 02:22:38,610
[Music]

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we are the GC and radio network hi this

3078
02:26:54,520 --> 02:26:53,000
is Nate Pope's you're listening to the

3079
02:26:57,080 --> 02:26:54,530
parrot rock

3080
02:26:59,840 --> 02:26:57,090
you'll notice ladies and gentlemen every

3081
02:27:02,960 --> 02:26:59,850
time Chris does the para cast the voice

3082
02:27:06,650 --> 02:27:02,970
gets deeper and deeper and soon it will

3083
02:27:08,960 --> 02:27:06,660
blow out the speakers on your radios I'm

3084
02:27:14,300 --> 02:27:08,970
going for the Walter Cronkite this is

3085
02:27:16,820 --> 02:27:14,310
Walter Cronkite was our guest this week

3086
02:27:18,980 --> 02:27:16,830
is clifford mahooty I'm gene Steinberg

3087
02:27:20,960 --> 02:27:18,990
you're in the para cast our final

3088
02:27:21,500 --> 02:27:20,970
segment of this particular visit okay

3089
02:27:23,570 --> 02:27:21,510
Clifford

3090
02:27:25,969 --> 02:27:23,580
so the people out there who don't

3091
02:27:29,390 --> 02:27:25,979
believe anything that you're saying how

3092
02:27:32,060 --> 02:27:29,400
should they look to this to try to find

3093
02:27:36,800 --> 02:27:32,070
whether it's true or not is it a feeling

3094
02:27:40,070 --> 02:27:36,810
is it research is it what they can

3095
02:27:43,610 --> 02:27:40,080
really analyze it actually go out there

3096
02:27:45,590 --> 02:27:43,620
and visit some of the tribes but that's

3097
02:27:47,200 --> 02:27:45,600
everything to is that it's very

3098
02:27:50,120 --> 02:27:47,210
difficult to look for the right person

3099
02:27:53,030 --> 02:27:50,130
to get the information from so I think

3100
02:27:57,260 --> 02:27:53,040
that what me what do they need to do is

3101
02:27:59,300 --> 02:27:57,270
to perhaps make contact with those

3102
02:28:00,770 --> 02:27:59,310
people that are connected to the

3103
02:28:03,290 --> 02:28:00,780
different tribes throughout the

3104
02:28:05,450 --> 02:28:03,300
southwest because the southwestern

3105
02:28:09,170 --> 02:28:05,460
Indian tribes and even the tribes up

3106
02:28:11,840 --> 02:28:09,180
north have a lot of connections as far

3107
02:28:13,250 --> 02:28:11,850
as written history is concerned now that

3108
02:28:15,500 --> 02:28:13,260
they've written a lot of these

3109
02:28:18,590 --> 02:28:15,510
prophecies but I think that the way to

3110
02:28:21,290 --> 02:28:18,600
do it would be to talk to those directly

3111
02:28:24,140 --> 02:28:21,300
from the tribal people themselves it's

3112
02:28:26,540 --> 02:28:24,150
great to learn about the other works

3113
02:28:29,240 --> 02:28:26,550
from and I have a lot of respect for

3114
02:28:31,760 --> 02:28:29,250
those people that took the legends and

3115
02:28:34,219 --> 02:28:31,770
the teachings from the Indians in many

3116
02:28:36,590 --> 02:28:34,229
many books by that the anthropology

3117
02:28:38,960 --> 02:28:36,600
archaeologist and so on but I think that

3118
02:28:41,030 --> 02:28:38,970
the best way to do that is to actually

3119
02:28:44,030 --> 02:28:41,040
go out there and sit down with those

3120
02:28:45,770 --> 02:28:44,040
people and have them explain to you but

3121
02:28:48,469 --> 02:28:45,780
that's the hard part you've got to get

3122
02:28:51,410 --> 02:28:48,479
their trust first I think what Clifford

3123
02:28:53,210 --> 02:28:51,420
is saying is that we need to take the

3124
02:28:54,830 --> 02:28:53,220
first step on our own and cultivate

3125
02:28:58,460 --> 02:28:54,840
personal relationships on the

3126
02:29:00,380 --> 02:28:58,470
reservations I've been doing this for

3127
02:29:02,990 --> 02:29:00,390
quite a number of years I was very

3128
02:29:04,490 --> 02:29:03,000
fortunate to meet Clifford and very

3129
02:29:07,280 --> 02:29:04,500
fortunate to meet a man who is walking

3130
02:29:09,921 --> 02:29:07,290
in both worlds and is able to

3131
02:29:11,690 --> 02:29:09,931
interpret some of these wonderful myths

3132
02:29:14,091 --> 02:29:11,700
and legends and put it into a modern

3133
02:29:16,810 --> 02:29:14,101
context in the only way that you can

3134
02:29:21,230 --> 02:29:16,820
really do that is to gain the trust of

3135
02:29:23,720 --> 02:29:21,240
indigenous people need I remind our

3136
02:29:27,160 --> 02:29:23,730
listeners that Native Americans have

3137
02:29:30,140 --> 02:29:27,170
really have been used and abused

3138
02:29:33,051 --> 02:29:30,150
throughout history since Europeans

3139
02:29:35,750 --> 02:29:33,061
arrived here and there is a natural

3140
02:29:37,910 --> 02:29:35,760
distrust for white people on reservation

3141
02:29:41,030 --> 02:29:37,920
it's it's it's almost genetic at this

3142
02:29:42,620 --> 02:29:41,040
point and it's a rare person like

3143
02:29:45,551 --> 02:29:42,630
Clifford who is willing to talk about

3144
02:29:47,120 --> 02:29:45,561
these subjects and give an informed

3145
02:29:50,000 --> 02:29:47,130
interpretation of some of these

3146
02:29:51,921 --> 02:29:50,010
wonderful myths and legends and one of

3147
02:29:54,080 --> 02:29:51,931
the things that I found fascinating is

3148
02:29:57,140 --> 02:29:54,090
Clifford mentioned to me that there's

3149
02:30:00,230 --> 02:29:57,150
more than one place of emergence for the

3150
02:30:02,240 --> 02:30:00,240
Zuni people and this is information that

3151
02:30:04,761 --> 02:30:02,250
I had never heard anywhere else before

3152
02:30:07,520 --> 02:30:04,771
and Eni I just find it fascinating that

3153
02:30:10,400 --> 02:30:07,530
you know his version of the emergence of

3154
02:30:12,320 --> 02:30:10,410
the medicine societies for instance the

3155
02:30:14,900 --> 02:30:12,330
the sacred societies is that they have a

3156
02:30:18,530 --> 02:30:14,910
different place of emergence which is

3157
02:30:21,200 --> 02:30:18,540
located near a very strategic US

3158
02:30:36,290 --> 02:30:21,210
government facility Clifford do you feel

3159
02:30:39,261 --> 02:30:36,300
okay to talk about that and the medicine

3160
02:30:40,900 --> 02:30:39,271
societies emerge from there and it's my

3161
02:30:44,120 --> 02:30:40,910
understanding that there's a lot of

3162
02:30:46,070 --> 02:30:44,130
vertices over there and there's work to

3163
02:30:49,210 --> 02:30:46,080
seize all over the all over the

3164
02:30:52,370 --> 02:30:49,220
southwest but that is the main vortex

3165
02:30:55,850 --> 02:30:52,380
for all the medicine societies which is

3166
02:30:59,870 --> 02:30:55,860
right there Los Alamos nuclear labs and

3167
02:31:01,700 --> 02:30:59,880
so that the origin of those they

3168
02:31:05,000 --> 02:31:01,710
distributed them throughout the whole

3169
02:31:07,881 --> 02:31:05,010
Southwest and so the medicine orders are

3170
02:31:10,700 --> 02:31:07,891
the same they speak the same language

3171
02:31:13,520 --> 02:31:10,710
almost and so this is the practices are

3172
02:31:15,860 --> 02:31:13,530
basically the same but again a language

3173
02:31:17,930 --> 02:31:15,870
is different so you're saying that the

3174
02:31:20,750 --> 02:31:17,940
medicine societies from all the

3175
02:31:22,760 --> 02:31:20,760
different pueblos share this commonality

3176
02:31:25,069 --> 02:31:22,770
you're not just talking specifically

3177
02:31:27,260 --> 02:31:25,079
about the Zuni medicine societies you're

3178
02:31:31,819 --> 02:31:27,270
talking about the entire Pueblo medicine

3179
02:31:33,500 --> 02:31:31,829
society system yes it's medicine society

3180
02:31:35,660 --> 02:31:33,510
came from different parts of the

3181
02:31:38,179 --> 02:31:35,670
different parts of the country and

3182
02:31:41,059 --> 02:31:38,189
they're their deities from different

3183
02:31:42,800 --> 02:31:41,069
parts of the universe and it just just

3184
02:31:44,719 --> 02:31:42,810
because they emerge from the earth

3185
02:31:46,849 --> 02:31:44,729
itself doesn't mean that they came from

3186
02:31:50,929 --> 02:31:46,859
the earth that's just where they the

3187
02:31:53,330 --> 02:31:50,939
vortex King came in from out there down

3188
02:31:59,359 --> 02:31:53,340
to the earth and they emerge from there

3189
02:32:01,399 --> 02:31:59,369
out here to the southwest well this is

3190
02:32:05,120 --> 02:32:01,409
interesting because if there is some

3191
02:32:08,750 --> 02:32:05,130
sort of civilization ending a series of

3192
02:32:12,290 --> 02:32:08,760
events that seems in some people's minds

3193
02:32:14,450 --> 02:32:12,300
to be imminent if the medicine societies

3194
02:32:18,340 --> 02:32:14,460
end up going back to Los Alamos won't

3195
02:32:21,290 --> 02:32:18,350
they need some sort of special clearance

3196
02:32:23,599 --> 02:32:21,300
badge something to get in there that is

3197
02:32:25,819 --> 02:32:23,609
a huge caldera with tons of lava tubes

3198
02:32:28,939 --> 02:32:25,829
and used to be a super volcano well it

3199
02:32:30,889 --> 02:32:28,949
still is that exploded and so the whole

3200
02:32:33,830 --> 02:32:30,899
area there has tons of underground

3201
02:32:35,510 --> 02:32:33,840
cavern systems and lab a tube are the

3202
02:32:38,210 --> 02:32:35,520
medicine society is supposed to go back

3203
02:32:42,319 --> 02:32:38,220
there before earth changes or is it more

3204
02:32:43,429 --> 02:32:42,329
like you said before that that it's

3205
02:32:44,630 --> 02:32:43,439
going to be different that we're

3206
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:44,640
actually going to be going and up

3207
02:32:58,719 --> 02:32:54,920
made up of many many different complex

3208
02:33:02,120 --> 02:32:58,729
societies so there's really no specific

3209
02:33:05,090 --> 02:33:02,130
specific ways to say that here's what's

3210
02:33:07,510 --> 02:33:05,100
going to happen during that time but the

3211
02:33:10,880 --> 02:33:07,520
only the only thing that they know about

3212
02:33:13,040 --> 02:33:10,890
is again through the prayer system when

3213
02:33:18,590 --> 02:33:13,050
they say when the time comes

3214
02:33:21,349 --> 02:33:18,600
our leaders or our watchers or our

3215
02:33:24,319 --> 02:33:21,359
spiritual people will be the ones that

3216
02:33:26,469 --> 02:33:24,329
will guide us back into whatever is

3217
02:33:29,179 --> 02:33:26,479
supposed to be so there's no really

3218
02:33:32,420 --> 02:33:29,189
special route there's no really special

3219
02:33:34,190 --> 02:33:32,430
way to say that this is what's going to

3220
02:33:37,761 --> 02:33:34,200
happen but it's all it's all

3221
02:33:40,400 --> 02:33:37,771
they set up it's a setup like in order

3222
02:33:42,710 --> 02:33:40,410
to get to that point you wait and we

3223
02:33:45,950 --> 02:33:42,720
will tell you them so there's no there's

3224
02:33:49,460 --> 02:33:45,960
no specific roadmap if you may own a lot

3225
02:33:51,921 --> 02:33:49,470
of these things but even a prayer for in

3226
02:33:54,591 --> 02:33:51,931
the esoteric system they said that they

3227
02:33:57,051 --> 02:33:54,601
will they will tell you when the time

3228
02:33:59,600 --> 02:33:57,061
comes so you don't question that we

3229
02:34:02,240 --> 02:33:59,610
never question that we don't ask the

3230
02:34:05,750 --> 02:34:02,250
question about where do we go after this

3231
02:34:08,511 --> 02:34:05,760
or why why is it such a mystery you just

3232
02:34:11,841 --> 02:34:08,521
say you accept it and you go from that

3233
02:34:13,730 --> 02:34:11,851
point on so we don't know let me ask you

3234
02:34:16,700 --> 02:34:13,740
here Clifford now that you've made kind

3235
02:34:18,381 --> 02:34:16,710
of this introduction to general society

3236
02:34:19,910 --> 02:34:18,391
and explaining this where do you go from

3237
02:34:24,740 --> 02:34:19,920
here do you have a website where we

3238
02:34:26,600 --> 02:34:24,750
could do some research but you're

3239
02:34:29,690 --> 02:34:26,610
planning on putting together a website

3240
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:29,700
and giving people who are interested a

3241
02:34:39,410 --> 02:34:37,050
place to go okay well you know one thing

3242
02:34:41,750 --> 02:34:39,420
I want to reiterate here is this is very

3243
02:34:46,370 --> 02:34:41,760
historic to have someone of your stature

3244
02:34:49,100 --> 02:34:46,380
and knowledge to be open enough and to

3245
02:34:52,040 --> 02:34:49,110
be gracious and trusting enough to go on

3246
02:34:54,980 --> 02:34:52,050
the air and talk about these things this

3247
02:34:59,421 --> 02:34:54,990
is a very intriguing subject I'm really

3248
02:35:01,460 --> 02:34:59,431
happy in and I'm actually honored that

3249
02:35:04,250 --> 02:35:01,470
you have selected the pair of cast as a

3250
02:35:06,950 --> 02:35:04,260
place to go and broadcast this

3251
02:35:08,600 --> 02:35:06,960
information you know from me personally

3252
02:35:10,131 --> 02:35:08,610
I want to thank you and I'm sure a lot

3253
02:35:11,480 --> 02:35:10,141
of our listeners out there are going to

3254
02:35:14,780 --> 02:35:11,490
find this information extremely

3255
02:35:17,360 --> 02:35:14,790
fascinating and we really appreciate it

3256
02:35:19,790 --> 02:35:17,370
and we're grateful that you've come on

3257
02:35:21,890 --> 02:35:19,800
the show and we'd like to do it again at

3258
02:35:23,511 --> 02:35:21,900
some point if you're if you're okay with

3259
02:35:25,580 --> 02:35:23,521
that we'll have to talk to Jean about

3260
02:35:27,650 --> 02:35:25,590
getting you back on but I think that

3261
02:35:30,830 --> 02:35:27,660
this was a wonderful show I really again

3262
02:35:32,421 --> 02:35:30,840
thank you so much for for agreeing to

3263
02:35:35,390 --> 02:35:32,431
talk with us about these subjects and

3264
02:35:37,520 --> 02:35:35,400
and you know we all have to just live

3265
02:35:39,320 --> 02:35:37,530
our lives in a very positive way and

3266
02:35:40,700 --> 02:35:39,330
live by the golden rule you know do unto

3267
02:35:43,310 --> 02:35:40,710
others as you would have them do unto

3268
02:35:44,690 --> 02:35:43,320
you these are the end times Chris we're

3269
02:35:45,980 --> 02:35:44,700
just about out of time Chris tell our

3270
02:35:47,480 --> 02:35:45,990
listeners where to find more things you

3271
02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:47,490
do oh I

3272
02:35:52,131 --> 02:35:50,250
website our strange planet calm that's

3273
02:35:53,841 --> 02:35:52,141
all my books and stuff are there and of

3274
02:35:55,820 --> 02:35:53,851
course I'm on the forums hey neighbors

3275
02:35:58,131 --> 02:35:55,830
would you like to become a part of the

3276
02:35:59,810 --> 02:35:58,141
para cast team well here's what we're

3277
02:36:03,080 --> 02:35:59,820
looking for we're in search of an

3278
02:36:06,020 --> 02:36:03,090
experienced online sales and marketing

3279
02:36:09,171 --> 02:36:06,030
specialist selling ads for websites and

3280
02:36:12,350 --> 02:36:09,181
also radio spots and expertise in

3281
02:36:15,290 --> 02:36:12,360
marketing the show also marketing for

3282
02:36:17,631 --> 02:36:15,300
search engine optimization what a big

3283
02:36:19,730 --> 02:36:17,641
term it is if you have regular broadcast

3284
02:36:22,730 --> 02:36:19,740
experience that's a huge plus to find

3285
02:36:25,520 --> 02:36:22,740
out more please contact us send your

3286
02:36:28,070 --> 02:36:25,530
resume to sales at the power cast comm

3287
02:36:30,230 --> 02:36:28,080
that sales at the power cast com to

3288
02:36:32,540 --> 02:36:30,240
become to become part of the power cast

3289
02:36:35,511 --> 02:36:32,550
team next week on the power cast will

3290
02:36:38,660 --> 02:36:35,521
feature mark Pilkington is the author of

3291
02:36:41,091 --> 02:36:38,670
mirage men the co-hosts will be Nicolas

3292
02:36:43,190 --> 02:36:41,101
Redfern and we wanna thank Chris O'Brien

3293
02:36:45,620 --> 02:36:43,200
our co-host this week a special thank

3294
02:36:47,990 --> 02:36:45,630
you for clifford mahooty for joining us

3295
02:36:48,500 --> 02:36:48,000
this week on the power cast thank you

3296
02:36:51,230 --> 02:36:48,510
very much

3297
02:36:54,330 --> 02:36:51,240
thanks a lot gene thanks Clifford

3298
02:36:56,650 --> 02:36:54,340
[Music]

3299
02:36:58,150 --> 02:36:56,660
the para cast is a copyrighted

3300
02:37:01,000 --> 02:36:58,160
presentation of making the impossible